Thanks for the brave post, Steve. The Houston World Affairs Council is hosting the Palestinian Ambassador Afif Sahieh tonight. I plan on asking him for constructive solutions. In particular, I would like to know how he feels about the RAND study on the rail "arc" that will develop the Palestinian areas and provide positive economic development and integration with Israel. As we have learned from the Europeans, economic ties beget more responsible politics.

Thanks for the note Matthew. One thing about the RAND rail arc project, which I support strongly -- Zbigniew Brzezinski told me a few months ago that he had agreed to serve as Chairman of that project. Just fyi,

Steve Clemons

Can we really compare the United States during the Cold War and Israel today? It would seem that the Israeli's neighborhood is a bit different and certainly more dangerous than ours at any time in the last 150 years. Of curse this isn't just about one soldier, but rather has multiple causes not the least of which is the fact that a terrorist organization that is based on the idea that Israel needs to be destroyed is at the helm right next door. If the United States every faced such a situation I think our restraint would also be tested...

Steve, as I have always maintained, Isreal seems hell-bent in its efforts to further destabilize the region, and force a "final solution" to the "muslim problem". One undeniable facet of this whole thing is the FACT that Israel will NEVER allow a Shiite dominated THEOCRACY to rule in Iraq, even if it is masquerading as a "democracy" of American design. Isreal intends to escalate this thing, using OUR BLOOD and OUR TREASURE to finally force the issue in the middle east. The so called "insurgency" in Iraq may well be partially a construct of the Mossad, and personally I believe it is. Israel WANTS a permanent American military presence, and they DO NOT want Shiite dominance in Iraq. Obviously their designs for Iraq cannot see fruition if in fact the MAJORITY rules in Iraq in the manner of a true democracy. An Iraq in full civil war, with a strong american military presence is incapable of forming a structured theocracy, or of posing a military threat to Isreal.

We can draw the same conclusions about a Hamas ruled Palestine. Israel will NEVER allow a truly democratic Palestine, because the FACTS ON THE GROUND are that Israel has murdered, enslaved, minimized, starved, caged, and abused the Palestinians for so long that entities such as Hamas are seen by the Palestinians as champions and saviours.

And here we see Israel kidnapping and caging duly elected officials of the Palestinian government. And this mewling fraud of a President, this fucking swaggering buffoon, Bush, will surely give Israel a free pass, blater on about Isreal's "right to defend itself", and continue to ship them the MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of dollars we send Isreal every WEEK.

The Israelis are acting predictably, and as I have said many times here in the past, you ain't seen NUTHIN' yet. By the time Bush and his Israeli masters are through, the death toll is going to be in THE MILLIONS, if not the BILLIONS,.

It seems that Israel may have learned the "shoot first, reasses the situation later" meme from the U.S. itself. It surely took notes as we brazenly took over a country with fists rather than flowers, and probably correctly calculated we'd support this response, as foolish as it has become.

Honestly, when you start buzzing the homes of other country's presidents, you're basically begging for war.

It sure is refreshing to see a washington insider take an objective view of Isreal in the manner that you have. So many times congressmen and senators refuse to speak of the Isreali flaws. Certainly over reaction has been a long and steady fault of the governing body in Israel.

Someone please tell me why it's wrong for the Palestinians to kidnap a soldier, when Israel kidnaps and murders civilians?

Governments in conflict often take prisoners of war, and no one can convince me that Israel is not at war against Palestine. They've been at war against Palestine since 1948.

Re: Pissed off American.

What he said.

(I do like stark) :-)

"Honestly, when you start buzzing the homes of other country's presidents, you're basically begging for war."

Or sending a message that using proxies such as Hamas may not be such a safe strategy anymore.

And what is with this "final solution" rhetoric? Pissed off American you sound like some wild conspiracy theorist--'Israel is pulling the strings in Iraq', etc, etc. Give me a break--you need to get over the "Israeli Lobby" meme already.

The Land is the Land of Israel given to them by God.

The Palestinians are Indians who need to mind themselves on their reservations or they bees in heap big trouble.

The only good Indian is a .... [edited by my shame]....

I agree: Israel does go over the line. And I agree with M&W that America does need to look at its interests vis a vis Israel in a more objective light. But, on the other hand, when you consider that Israel has had to fight for its life for its entire existence--some times in all out wars; other times against terrorism--it is easy to see why Israel goes over the line, even if one can't excuse it. The Palestinians' refusal to accept (except with their fingers crossed) Israel's right to exist is the fundamental problem. And it has been since the beginning. Had the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab accepted the two-state solution at the beginning, the Palestinian state now be 58 years old, at least as big as Israel, with its capital (probably) in Jerusalem. Even at this late date, it is news that Hammas and Fattah are negotiating and reaching an agreement to accept Israel right to exist. This is so basic, and has been chewed over so many times, we forget how important it is. Perhaps because 99% of the world's population lives in countries whose basic existence isn't called into question--morally, politically, or militarily. Rockets still--and suicide bombers until recently--attacked within the pre-1967 borders. This isn't a question of the occupied territories, so-called, it's a question of whether Israel gets to exist at all. When Israel dealt with a country that did accept its existence, it willingly gave back the Sinai. It unilaterally pulled out of Gaza. It certainly has plans to pull out of much of the West Bank. I'm certain they would give up even more if they were assured of a friendly, or even a non-hostile neighbor. But when one's neighbor is led by a political party that has sworn to annihilate you, things do get a little touchy. Imagine a Canada or a Mexico had been pursuing that course for that past half century with us, and we were the size of, say, Delaware.

I agree: Israel does go over the line. And I agree with M&W that America does need to look at its interests vis a vis Israel in a more objective light. But, on the other hand, when you consider that Israel has had to fight for its life for its entire existence--some times in all out wars; other times against terrorism--it is easy to see why Israel goes over the line, even if one can't excuse it. The Palestinians' refusal to accept (except with their fingers crossed) Israel's right to exist is the fundamental problem. And it has been since the beginning. Had the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab accepted the two-state solution at the beginning, the Palestinian state now be 58 years old, at least as big as Israel, with its capital (probably) in Jerusalem. Even at this late date, it is news that Hammas and Fattah are negotiating and reaching an agreement to accept Israel right to exist. This is so basic, and has been chewed over so many times, we forget how important it is. Perhaps because 99% of the world's population lives in countries whose basic existence isn't called into question--morally, politically, or militarily. Rockets still--and suicide bombers until recently--attacked within the pre-1967 borders. This isn't a question of the occupied territories, so-called, it's a question of whether Israel gets to exist at all. When Israel dealt with a country that did accept its existence, it willingly gave back the Sinai. It unilaterally pulled out of Gaza. It certainly has plans to pull out of much of the West Bank. I'm certain they would give up even more if they were assured of a friendly, or even a non-hostile neighbor. But when one's neighbor is led by a political party that has sworn to annihilate you, things do get a little touchy. Imagine a Canada or a Mexico had been pursuing that course for that past half century with us, and we were the size of, say, Delaware.

I agree with Matthew (first poster) that it is a brave post, Steve. And I'm also sad that simply making this observation of the reality that you see is something we have to consider "brave." I have no doubt you'll have (or have had) the "will of God!" and "you're anti-Semitic!" posters.

I usually agree with your point of view but think that you are totally over the line with this one. Dredging up a 39 year old incident like the Liberty to chastise Israel. 10 separate U.S. investigations including the Clifford Report, U.S. Navy Court, Joint Chiefs of Staff, CIA and 3 Israeli additional investigations have found Israel free of any malicious intent and concluded rather that the terrible incident resulted from confusion in the midst of an incendiary war in 1967.

It is so typical of Americans to play the Israeli blame game, on the one hand throwing up our hands because of the restrictions on Palestinian travel and then reacting with typical silence on our part when a crossing station gets suicide bombed. As an American son of an Israeli Sabra, I have lived through a war and another major conflict in Israel. I am proud that the lives of its soldiers are so highly valued. The Israeli government has tried every rational way to setup a livable 2 state solution and have been thwarted every time. How does the maxim go? - the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. The real truth of the matter is that the Hamas led government and the Islamic/hezbollah resistance has indicated its desire to throw every jew into the sea and to totally islamize the middle east and the Arabian Peninsula.

Marquis of Queensbury rules and concessions have never resulted in any peace for Israel - the only thing that its opponents respect is strength.

I am always amazed that the self defeating plight of the Palestinians gets so much traction in the Arab world, while Turkey and Iraq could massacre far more Kurds who have similar hopes for a homeland without batting an eye. Assad could kill 80,000 at Hama or the Jordanian Hashemite minority government can waste thousands of Palestinians during Black September and the events are met with stone silence. The world can only handle jews as victims or martyrs and Israel is expected to adhere to a code of moral behavior and a ration of general abuse that the rest of world would never countenance.

The capture of a soldier is an act of war. It isn't the start of one, just another act in the play.

By the way, we opened the door for the Assad flyover with our Afganistan invasion. Assad is supporting and protecting exiled Hamas leaders and others who are planning and providing support for attacks in Israel - is Israel just supposed to let it go? Especially when one of them is saying "yes, kidnap MORE, not less"? Perhaps we should reconsider our pursuit of OBL? He planned attacks on our country and killed three thousand - is that the magic number Hamas has to hit to make Israel's response 'proportional'?

I wonder, though, what young Mr. Gilad Shalit thinks of all the fuss. God willing, he's still alive.

Congradulations Steve for calling a spade a spade.

There is not a dime's worth of difference between the German's "Master Race" experiment and the Israeli's "Chosen People" delusion.

I want every American to pay attention to one thing once again most apparent in the US stance when it comes to itself and Israel..that the US has in effect condoned this latest violation of international law and "collective punishment" by the Israelis. We have for decades enabled the outlaw Israelis and America is now "Isramerica" in the eyes of the world.

Let me translate this...the USA NO LONGER abides by or recongizes or respects the INTERNATIONAL Laws we ourselves help write and the rest of the world signed onto after WWII.

Let me repeat that...THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAS REJECTED ALL INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND UNIVERSAL AGREED ON RULES OF CONDUCT AND HAS DECLARED ITSELF AND ISRAEL ABOVE ANY LAWS IN THE UNIVERSE.

Just think about what that means....

I like it when they run over peaceful female protestors with bulldozers... a real concern for humanity there.

Carroll wrote: "Let me repeat that...THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA HAS REJECTED ALL INTERNATIONAL LAWS AND UNIVERSAL AGREED ON RULES OF CONDUCT AND HAS DECLARED ITSELF AND ISRAEL ABOVE ANY LAWS IN THE UNIVERSE.

Just think about what that means...."

The State of Israel was created through an act of the United Nations. The same act created a Palestinian state, which was universally rejected by the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world in favor of war. BTW, the original State of Israel was much, much smaller than it was even in 1967 (after two wars). For some reason, it is easy to accept that every people has a right to a homeland, except when it comes to the Jewish people. When a conflict goes on and on...as this has for over half a century...both sides become more extreme and the extremists come out to wreak havoc because moderation and reason appear not to work. The Greater Israel movement only gained real traction late in the game. For most of its history, Israel had a socialist and secular government that, among other things, did much to aid lesser developed countries in Africa and elsewhere. For most of that same period, the Palestinian leadership, Arafat, pursued an overt policy of pushing Israel into the sea--as did her neighbors. This policy was abandoned not because Arab leaders discovered international law and its importance for world peace, but because they failed to defeat Israel militarily, and it was smarter to jaw jaw than to war war. If we're all concerned about international law--and we should be--then the first thing we ought to say is that Israel has a right to exist in peace without the threat of war from its neighbors, without rockets pouring into settlements within long-established borders, and without suicide bombers blowing up pizza parlors. When all the Arab countries open up embassies in Israel and invite Israel to do the same in their countries, then we will have something like adherence to international law.

Carroll, are you serious? Granted, it sucks to be Palestinian (not that it's all that great to be an Israeli and get blown up on a bus or in a cafe), but I really do think there is more than a "dime's bit of difference" between Palestinian oppression and wholesale slaughter. But that's just my opinion.

And yes, we've known for some time that we're 'above the law.' That didn't happen overnight.

"For some reason, it is easy to accept that every people has a right to a homeland, except when it comes to the Jewish people."

It still amazes me that people continue to confuse a religion with a race. Racially, Jews and Palestinians are identical. But even if we allow that argument, it still falls apart. I can't think of one nation that is officially the "homeland" of one race or another...except Israel...which is not really homeland to a race of people, but rather a theocracy, similar to many nations in that matter.

That post isn't going to win you many friends, Steve.

A pox on both their houses: Israel is can barely contain it's enthusiasm at having an excuse to beat the crap out of the Palestinians.

The Palestinians had a chance to start over with new, non-corrupt leadership and the full attention of the world community who very much wanted to see them succeed.

Why is it we hear about Palestinian violence over and over but we never here much about what the Israelis have done? Why was this story forgotten about so soon?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/

Go look at some of the stats when it comes to Israeli and Palestinian violence. It might surprise you.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Why do we let these two Semitic cousins constantly battle it out with each other? The old song lyric of "no one's right when everyone is wrong" rings true when it comes to this conflict. The Israeli's have every right to "defend" themselves, but the grievances of the Palestinians protesting the continual "collateral damage" of innocent children being obliterated by errant bombs, missiles and bullets cannot be gainsayed.

How about a prosaic analogy...let's imagine that we all live in a pretty nice neighborhood where everyone gets along fairly well. Of course there are always minor spats here and there, but with social comity and respect, these disputes are resolved without much rancor or conflict.

Now lets suppose that there are two neighbors who constanly are bickering and fighting with one another, and that at some point, the tension escalates and shots are fired. One of these errant shots kills another neighbor living down the street.

The community at large is so incensed that these two families cannot settle their disputes and are now threatening the general tranquility and peace of their neighbors that action must be taken to ensure the community is not adversely affected by these two radical families.

The response is that the community burns down both their houses and kills the families before more innocent neighbors are killed because of the insanity and irrationality of these two clans to properly settle their disputes.

This to me is the crux of the matter in regard to the continuing dispute of the Israelis and Palestinians.

In a world in which the Cold War ended with a wimper and not a bang; where a Marxist terrorist imprisoned for 27 years can declare "let bygones be bygones" and two years later be elected President of South Africa, then certainly the world can and should "impose" peace on these unruly neighbors whose argument threatens the peace of all around them

Ergo, the solution to the Israeli - Palestinian conflict is:

1. the US must guarantee Israel's right to existence - any attack which threatens their annihilation is an attack on the US and much like NATO, the US will intervene militarily in times of crises.

2. There must be a Palestinian homeland according to the 1967 borders. Israel must dismantle their settlements, withdraw its troops and slowly remove portions of the wall.

3. An Arab League - US - Israeli summit meeting must be held at which Israel's right to exist is recognized by all countries in the region.

4. To "encourage" this recognition, a mideast "Marshall Plan" will be announced pledging $200 billion over 10 years to help the "transition" of Palestine and Israel as well as assist regional countries develop an economic trade block which will get preferential tariff and tax treatment.

5. A multinational "peace" brigade will initially patrol the border between Israel and Palestine to ensure that violence does not disrupt the process.

By following the above measures, the "neighborhood" can be secured and the warring factions can be placated.

Israel will be secure in the knowledge that they are recognized and that the US will intervene to guarantee their safety.

The Palestinians are content that they will finally have their own country.

The surrounding mideast countries will benefit from the enormous financial aid stimulus and the world will benefit by finally solving the last lingering conflict from the past millenia.

Any comments?

".... among other things, did much to aid lesser developed countries in Africa and elsewhere."

You're right, i vividly recall their strong support of the white minority government in South Africa.

Steve,

Speaking of the USS Liberty, last June 8th came and went, and not one acknowledgement from our mainstream media, nor our public officials, on the 39th anniversary of Israel's attack on the USS Liberty that ended the lives of 34 and wounding of 174 US servicemen. Even though this attack could easily be overshadowed by the Vietnam War, its importance and impact on US Middle East policy has been felt ever since from oil embargo against the US in the early 70's, to 9/11, our war on terror, our current war in Afghanistan and Iraq, and ironically Israel's assult on Gaza.

The USS Liberty and the heroes that served on it were our eyes and ears to the events that unfolded during the Arab/Israel Six Day War in 1967. Israel's attack on the Liberty essentially blinded US leaders to a seminal event leading to the 'war on terror'..... Israel's land grab for Gaza, Sinai Peninsula, West Bank, and the Golan Heights. A land grab and occupation that to this day is a primary motivator for Islamic terrorism. Three days into the Six Day War Israeli leaders feared that if intelligence continued to flow through the USS Liberty, US diplomats would have 'obstructed' their land grab objective....hence the attack was ordered.

The day American's can freely discuss and debate such matters in public without the fear of retribution will be our first victory in our (and Israel's) "war on terror".

Well Sue...would you care to explain the difference between the two?....without justifying the Israeli's nazi like conduct by citing their eternal victimhood.

Germans-Israelis..same mentality, same sickness.

The only reason the Israelis haven't wiped out Palestine in one swope certainly isn't because they have any morals, it is their fear that that outrage would finally turn the US public totally against them...so they carry out their genocide slower and use straw man excuses for every little bite they take out of Palestine.

""For some reason, it is easy to accept that every people has a right to a homeland, except when it comes to the Jewish people."

It still amazes me that people continue to confuse a religion with a race. Racially, Jews and Palestinians are identical. But even if we allow that argument, it still falls apart. I can't think of one nation that is officially the "homeland" of one race or another...except Israel...which is not really homeland to a race of people, but rather a theocracy, similar to many nations in that matter."

First of all, Jews are not a race; nor are Arabs. They are a people or an ethnic group. More akin to Europeans or North Americans. (There is the caucasian race, the Asian race, the negro race, etc. No European race or French race exists.

Second, Jews are both an ethnic and a religious group. In Judaism, there is no clear distinction between peoplehood and religion. Put another way, the Western concept of religion as something separate from peoplehood doesn't really exist in Judaism, even though Jews may be more or less religious, or even non-religious. For many non-religious Jews, religious rituals, say the Passover seder, are not religious acts, but expressions of their culture.

Israel is not a theocracy. Many, many Israeli citizens are not Jews. Saudi Arabia would be closer to a theocracy (no Jews live there), as would Iran (few, if any Jews remain there). Should we be destroying Saudi and Iran because they don't allow the practice of other religions? What should we do about Mecca? I believe that a non-Muslim cannot step foot in Mecca or mingle with the haj without, what?, being killed? I wonder what international law has to say about this? Why is the Arab world not up in arms about the terrible theocratic oppression going on in Mecca, the heart of the Muslim world, the place where every Muslim in the world is duty bound to visit before he dies? What does international law have to say about this? Why are we never (really) talking about this issue? The last I heard, all three major religions have shrines in Jerusalem, and anyone in the world is free to visit there.

Dear Peter Schwartz ...you really should read Jackie Roses's a "Question of Zion"..being a jew herself she does a excellent job of describing the "collective neurosis" of zionism thru out it's history and how it attracks those jews who are already predesposed to neurosis and paranoia and low self esteem and are eager to take on the zionist myth as their identfy and reason for their existance.

Excellent book for anyone to understand why "not all jews" are zionist and why others are....just plain old "cultism"...jewish or gentile, some people are just mentally bent to buy into the myths and the cultist groups.

Condi's mealy-mouth irrelevent mewlings aside, from *Shmuel Rosner and **JTA's reporting; "let the Palestinians sweat a little" and "The Bush administration will not force Israel into concessions", there's tacit adminstration acceptance of Israel's behavior in Gaza and whatever Olmert wants vis a vis the territories eventually granted to the Pals.
*http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732542.html
**http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=3341

SOS.

If our government accepts the mass "arrests", destruction of power plants, humanitarian crisis in Gaza etc, as Israel's right, it could throw multiple monkey wrenches into diplomatic efforts on other fronts...such as the Iran issue, TWOT, rallying support for the Iraqi puppet government, NK etc.

According to the***Boston Globe, the main power plant bombed by Israel is insured under a special US program. Guess who controls the dispersal of the repair monies?

Why, it's those self-righteous champions of democractic/humanitarian values strutting around the halls of Congress, that's who.
***http://tinyurl.com/g6q8h

Carroll,

I think the point you are trying to make is that the theory of 'racial superiority' is, well, shitty, regardless of race (or religion). On it's face, I agree with that. However, the Israelis aren't angels but the Master Race experiment was, as I said before, wholesale slaughter. Are the Palestinians living in ghettos? Yes. Are their movements restricted? Yes. Are they being herded up into box cars and slaughtered like cattle? No, unless you have new information for us. And no, I do not consider oppression to equal genocide.

Do you really think the State of Israel would suddenly collapse if the US withdrew its support, monetary, military and political? Bah. I do not agree.

Still holding onto your copy of 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion", eh?

Sue,

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Israel can takecare of itself. I move to withdraw all US aid from Israel as well as the billions of dollar of aid money we pay to Israel's neighbors to keep them in check. We have better use for that money in the United States. I'm sure you'd agree.

I have good news for you Mangels...that day is here. The New Rule is everyone can say what they think, question whatever they want to question. Pass this good news on, as soon as everyone knows about the New Rule, all things will be sorted out and start to change for the better.

"The day American's can freely discuss and debate such matters in public without the fear of retribution will be our first victory in our (and Israel's) "war on terror".

Posted by mangels at June 29, 2006 04:55 PM

Go look at some of the stats when it comes to Israeli and Palestinian violence. It might surprise you.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Posted by Socrates

Thanks for posting that. If you didn't, I would have. Very few Americans know how lopsided the violence is, and just how far Israel has gone in their oppression of the Palestinians. People decry the suicide bombings, as do I. But what weapons do the impoverished Palestinans have against the American funded modern Israeli military? What options do they have? And now, with these sanctions against the Palestinans, the oppression only becomes more draconian. What Palestinian is going to press for peace after seeing their children STARVE under the heavy hand of an American backed system of oppression that only favors an ever increasingly hostile and rabid Israeli disdain for the Muslims?

What Muslim nation could get away with making a mock strafing run over Washington, or over Tel Aviv?

It's easy to criticise Israel for its horrid actions, which speak for themselves. However, whenever you do, several heads pop up shouting, "anti-semite." We will never get anywhere with that. Fact is, Israel doesn't need to defend itself, immediately, with "force," whenever the Palestinians pull a stunt. Steve has it right when he points out there is a lack of maturity in the region.

Sue...

"Are the Palestinians living in ghettos? Yes. Are their movements restricted? Yes. Are they being herded up into box cars and slaughtered like cattle? No, unless you have new information for us. And no, I do not consider oppression to equal genocide."

Well I do...slow motion genocide, fast forward genocide...no difference except the time table. Genocide is genocide because is it the "Intent" involved, not the methods.

I have never read the Protocals of the Elders, I depend mostly on the official historical records such as the British National Archives and the US Presidential Libaries for my information concerning the zionist movement and Israel but your resort to that type slur tells me that I am coreect in my opinion that the cultist racism of the German nationalist and the Zionst nationalist are exactly the same.

"And what is with this "final solution" rhetoric? Pissed off American you sound like some wild conspiracy theorist--'Israel is pulling the strings in Iraq', etc, etc. Give me a break--you need to get over the "Israeli Lobby" meme already."

Tell you what. If you are going to rebut my comments, do so with something other than such predictable simplistic drool.

Are you denying that Israel abetted these criminals in Washington with their deceptive lead up to the invasion of Iraq, or are now trying to commit the same kind of inflamatory posturing against Iran? Or how about making a mock strafing run over a Syrian leader's home?

Is it your contention that Israel will allow an Iranian backed Shiite theocracy to come to power in Iraq??? Surely you aren't that fuckin' stupid.

And if they WON'T allow it, how will they stop it?? By nuking Bagdad??? Or perhaps with black ops and the clandestine manipulation of the "insurgency"? Which option makes the most sense, genius?

Do you want me to recap the past??? Link to thier historical deceptions??? Are you denying that the Mossad has been CAUGHT RED HANDED impersonating Al Qaeda operatives? Do you want me to dredge up the COUNTLESS EXAMPLES of Israeli acts of espionage carried out HERE IN THE UNITED STATES??? You asses would have the American people DENY REALITY, and when we choose not to do so you drone on with your mindless chants about "anti-semitism".

Go bulldoze some more children, or bombard another beach or two. Surely you will win the Palestinian hearts that way, eh?

"Perhaps we should reconsider our pursuit of OBL?"

No need, Bush already did that. Thats why we are in Iraq. Haven't you heard?

Israel is on acid...

I completely agree with you. I included a link in my diary on daily kos to your article.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/29/193031/466

For me the whole Israeli-Palestinian controversy falls into a big category called Other People's Problems. But this is a minority view in the blogosphere.

So I'll confine myself to observing that Ariel Sharon's stroke left an enormous void in the middle of the Israeli political scene. Traditionally, Israeli governments scrape by with small majorities in the Knesset and so have relatively limited freedom of action in many areas. Sharon's margin in his last election along with his outsized personality made him Israel's unquestioned leader. He could take steps away from longtime Likud positions and maintain power. Ohlmert's position is far more tenuous, and he must be aware that if Israelis perceive him as letting the Palestinians get away with anything his lease on the top job won't last long.

So I'm not surprised that the Israeli government has reacted neuralgically -- and, I am afraid, unwisely -- to Palestinian terror gangs incessant but ineffectual rocket attacks from Gaza. Israeli psychology is such that only leaders trusted to be strong can afford to be conciliatory; leaders who suspect they are not yet so trusted will go out of their way to demonstrate their willingness to answer several times over any Palestinian provocation. Of which, sad to say, there will never be any shortage, notwithstanding Saudi Prince Turki's wise advice to the Palestinians the other day.

"The State of Israel was created through an act of the United Nations. The same act created a Palestinian state, which was universally rejected by the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world in favor of war."

Schwartz, this is your view of those events, what Zionists defend as the status quo.

A more realistic look at these actions would declare that "the UN broke international law by demanding and foisting the Zionist Project upon the State of Palestine, partitioning this once fertile and cosmopolitan nation and leaving its original citizens with less than half of their country.

As time has progressed, the Zionist intruders have slaughtered and massacred countless native Palestinians. Zionists have broken and delayed every attempt by grumbling, disenfranchised and weary Palestinians to accept a peace which leaves them with ever less of their homes and in an apartheid state in which they are forbidden to travel within the confines of their native homeland.

Today, the Zionists continue to feed on a daily diet of Palestinian citizens and their children with impunity, having seduced their patron into somnambulant acceptance of their genocidal behavior.

Even when Zionists exhibit clearly psychotic behavior, such as storming a region of the Palestinian refugee villages with all the violence and greed for blood of Satan, Don US does nothing but sip his cappucino and nod sleepily in the shade of the disease of the Bush "administration"."

Now, if you don't agree with the opinion of THE REST of the world, there's no law against stupidity. And just as I have insulted you by calling you stupid, you may call me an anti-semite all you want. After all, everyone knows there's no such thing as a Semite, except in some flawed pseudo-academic works that parallel numerology in rigor and veracity.

I have had a large slew of responses to this post both here on the blog and even more by emai. Quite a number agree with my perspective and many others don't and have written thoughtful critiques and alternative takes on the israel-Palestine matter. That said, the responses have been 99.9% civil and much appreciated. One response came in labeling me anti-semitic, a "hitler"-lover, etc. -- and is the type of counter-productive commentary that makes sensible debate and discussion about this matters almost impossible in many organizations. I won't debate ad hominem attacks -- and those types of remarks about myself or anyone else will be deleted.

Keep your points thoughtful, intelligent and civil. There are many different views on these matters -- and while some agreed with my general take, they saw my inclusion of the USS Liberty as wrong-headed and not useful. I think I disagree with them because my point was not to rub salt in wounds, but was rather to remind people of a bit of history in which the US might have reacted furiously and instead figured out a way not to respond disproportionately. There are many other examples I could use as well -- but the USS Liberty interested me as I was discussing Jim Bamford's book, Puzzle Palace, i which I first read of this 25 years ago -- with several former high ranking national intelligence officials.

But my mind is open. These are tough matters -- and i hope that we get to a better place in Israeli-Palestinian matters soon, but my sense is that the situation just got significantly worse. That said, the deterioration may cause Bush to finally jump in to things again.

More later.

-- Steve Clemons

Carroll,

“Genocide is genocide because is it the "Intent" involved, not the methods.”

Please provide your sources for Israeli ‘intent’ on genocide. Also, I question your application of the term 'genocide' without consideration to method - after all, I can't commit genocide with spitballs. I might intend to, but does that really qualify?

As for my slur, that was also an @SSumption, based on your assertion that the U.S. had “DECLARED ITSELF AND ISRAEL ABOVE ANY LAWS IN THE UNIVERSE.” I figured it was 'over the top' night. Your “without justifying the Israeli's nazi like conduct by citing their eternal victimhood” was an @ssumption as well. I had no intention of doing anything of the sort. Although, I’m kind of curious as to how me being a little shit validates your opinion about Zionism being a racist cult.

Mangels, I would love to see our aid dramatically scaled back and a great deal more spent on other things. I've got two kids in public school - I know all about it.

Yeah, POA, I heard about Iraq, and I happen to think that’s a BAD thing, but that’s another thing for another time, yes?

As far as, "http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Posted by Socrates

Thanks for posting that. If you didn't, I would have. Very few Americans know how lopsided the violence is, and just how far Israel has gone in their oppression of the Palestinians. People decry the suicide bombings, as do I. But what weapons do the impoverished Palestinans have against the American funded modern Israeli military?"

What weapons do they have? Question: true or false? If someone puts bigger military-type weapons in their hands, they will have the SAME WEAPONS THEY HAVE NOW only the ones they are choosing to use will make bigger holes. The only thing that will accomplish will be to even out the numbers. So I guess the real question would be what other weapons do they have now that are either not being used, or not being used properly?

Truth be told, at the end of the day when I’m snuggled in my bed, I strongly suspect it is sacrilege when innocent blood is spilled on holy land, and that if blood calls out for blood then surely the very stones themselves cry out. It's making everyone over there crazy, and it's freakin' contagious.

"But my mind is open. These are tough matters -- and i hope that we get to a better place in Israeli-Palestinian matters soon, but my sense is that the situation just got significantly worse. That said, the deterioration may cause Bush to finally jump in to things again."

Oh Gawd......please, spare us the spectacle and disaster that occurs anytime and everytime that feckless buffoon "jumps into" ANYTHING. Do you REALLY want to see matters deteriorate further? God willing, the only "jumping" that clown will do is OUT of Air Force One. At 10,000 feet.

"Please provide your sources for Israeli ‘intent’ on genocide."

Can't. They're all dead.

Too bad, so sad. Hamas had a chance, a serious chance, to come out as a popular, peacemaking alternative to Arafat's corrupt Fatah moneymaking empire. Everyone in Palestine knew that Arafat and Fatah were in it for the cash, and they stole from everyone. Now, one of Hamas' head guys, sitting pretty in Damascus, starts ordering kidnappings to see how far he can push the Israelis.

Hamas is supposed to be running a sovereign government, remember? This isn't a rampage. This is called "Jews trying to survive." This is the Israelis telling Hamas that under no circumstances will another suicide bombing campaign be tolerated. If one starts, the entire Hamas leadership, up to and including the head ass clown in Damascus, will be liquidated. The Israelis have just showed them the opportunity cost of not remaining at peace with the Jewish state.

Hamas was pushing the envelope to see how far it can go. Behind them are Hezboallah in Lebanon with a hand-up from their friends in the Iranian Pasadaran. And I suppose the guy in Damascus was operating without the cooperation of the Boy President of Damascus? But this is a liberal blog, so you don't see this. Oh, and it's Bush's fault.

Too bad the Western Freaking Democracy always gets the lion's share of blame on this blog. Oh well, the spirit of Appeasement didn't die at Munich, I suppose.

Oh, GREAT Steve! Thanks a lot. I should actually fax this whole comments section over to Karl Rove and Ken Mehlman.

That's right, Steve, you've let the Totenkopfverbande out. You just couldn't help but dredge up the U.S.S. LIBERTY incident to signal to the rest of your readers just how shifty them backstabbing Israelis are! On cue, the latent anti-Semitism and Jew-baiting of the Modern Left came out with a vengeance.

This is great. The RNC will love this. I mean, it's not like we're going to lose our majority anymore or anything. After all, when Larry Sabato throws in the towel, it's time for liberals to find the nearest tall building from which to jump. But the notion, peddled by liberal "progressives" in these comments, that the Jooos want to impose a "Final Solution" on the Arabs is just peachy. Well, for us. I mean, once the Angry Left's True Face starts getting out to the Jewish Community, well, let's just say there'll be a big smile on Karl's puss.

Too bad, Steve. You want to be a Major Player for Team Hillary, but you ended up publishing an online version of "The Spotlight". That's not only Bad Mojo, that's Bad Mojito....

"That's right, Steve, you've let the Totenkopfverbande out. You just couldn't help but dredge up the U.S.S. LIBERTY incident to signal to the rest of your readers just how shifty them backstabbing Israelis are! On cue, the latent anti-Semitism and Jew-baiting of the Modern Left came out with a vengeance."

Steve, I know you asked us to be civil, but do we gotta???? This guys an asshole, pure and simple.

Steve:

Straight from Stan's Donuts .... (been a while)

Speakin' the words "USS Liberty" invites a whole bunch of contumely ...

Some of us know better.

As Rather parted: "Courage."

I continue to appreciate the work you're doing. And it ain't gettin' easier ...

Jim B.
Mill Valley

Steve's inclusion of the USS Liberty incident is perfectly appropiate.
In considering what needs to be done about Israel, and the ME in relation to Israel, and also in relation to the US, we need to take into consideration their past history and behavior. If the frog hadn't been stung to death giving the scorpion a ride across the river you could ask him if the scorpion changes it nature.

The USS Liberty incident was and still remains a betrayal of Americans by their own goverment. The US goverment betrayed the American dead and the survivors of the USS Liberty and denied them justice. It was the first instance of Americans "offically" being betrayed by their own goverment for the benefit of zionist and Israel. But it wasn't the last, and it has only gotten worst over the years as the zionist have covered their transgression by hiding behind anti-semitism and pushing the concept that America and Israel are "One and the Same". They aren't.

Time for Americans to say "Never Again" and enforce it ....by riding our goverment of every individual and influence who is not for America,the original American principles of fairness and Americans first.

Sue, honey...you are wasting your time with this worn out ploy...

"Carroll,

“Genocide is genocide because is it the "Intent" involved, not the methods.”
"Please provide your sources for Israeli ‘intent’ on genocide. "

I don't have to provide you with any sources and your "request for sources' is a worn out tactic for zionist activist..

And this...."Also, I question your application of the term 'genocide' without consideration to method - after all, I can't commit genocide with spitballs. I might intend to, but does that really qualify?

LOL..yes honey I could kill you with spitballs if I was starving you to death as the same time.

Go to bed, or do your homework, you are embrassing yourself with this kindergarden reasoning.

Not to belabor the point Steve made about the US and the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty....but I just want to restate my opinion that the US response was "betrayal" of Americans...and had we acted to curb Israel right then and there they might have learned a lesson.

But as one poster mentioned, the anniversary of the USS Liberty comes and goes and no thought is given to it except by the familes of the dead and the survivors.

So for the survivors I will post here some excerpts from Bamfords book shown at the site that contains his response to the zionist minons at the NR who typically tried to smear him also as an anti-semite for exposing the inside info on the Liberty cover-up.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/bamford.html

-- Lieutenant General Marshall S. Carter, director of the National Security Agency at the time: "There was no other answer than it was deliberate."

-- Dr. Louis Tordella, the deputy director of NSA at the time: "I believed the attack might have been ordered by some senior commander on the Sinai Peninsula [where the massacres were taking place] who wrongly suspected that the Liberty was monitoring his activities." Tordella also scrawled across the top page of the formal Israeli "mistake" report, "A nice whitewash."

-- Major General John Morrison, NSA deputy director of Operations at the time: "Nobody believes that explanation. The only conjecture that we ever made that made any near sense is that the Israelis did not want us to intercept their communications at that time."

-- Walter Deeley, the senior NSA official who conducted an internal NSA investigation of the incident: "There is no way that they didn't know that the Liberty was American."

-- Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: "I have to conclude that it was Israel's intent to sink the Liberty and leave as few survivors as possible. Israel knew perfectly well that the ship was American."

-- Captain William L. McGonnagle, the Liberty's commander: "After many years I finally believe that the attack was deliberate."

-- Phillip F. Tourney, president of the USS Liberty Veterans Association and a survivor of the attack: "The Israelis got by with cold-blooded, premeditated murder of Americans."

-- Richard Helms, Director of Central Intelligence at the time: "Your chapter on the Liberty was exactly right."

-- George Christian, press secretary to President Johnson at the time: "I became convinced that an accident of this magnitude was too much to swallow."

-- Paul C. Warnke, Under Secretary of the Navy at the time: "I found it hard to believe that it was, in fact, an honest mistake on the part of the Israeli air force units.... I suspect that in the heat of battle they figured that the presence of this American ship was inimical to their interests."

-- Dean Rusk, Secretary of State at the time: "The Liberty was flying an American flag. It was not all that difficult to identify, and my judgment was that somewhere along the line some fairly senior Israeli official gave the go-ahead for these attacks."

-- David G. Nes, the deputy head of the American mission in Cairo at the time: "I don't think that there's any doubt that it was deliberate.... [It is] one of the great cover-ups of our military history."

-- George Ball, Under Secretary of State at the time: "American leaders did not have the courage to punish Israel for the blatant murder of its citizens."

...and that last remark by Sec of State Ball tells you all you need to know about why Israel and their zionist supporters in our own goverment be seperated from the US.

"Please provide your sources for Israeli ‘intent’ on genocide. Also, I question your application of the term 'genocide' without consideration to method - after all, I can't commit genocide with spitballs. I might intend to, but does that really qualify?"

Sue, get real. You KNOW Israel is trying to wipe the Palestinians out just as sure as Adolf was trying to wipe them out! If not, why couldn't they share Palestine under one flag? Why are children dying every doggone day at the hands of the Zionist army? Why is the political reality rigged so aggressively against Palestine?

I think most people who have investigated this conflict know in their hearts that Israel is exacting revenge for the Holocaust on the Palestinians. If this was the war between Ethiopia and Eritrea, rhetoric and action would be much more civil. Hell, the rhetoric between Bush and Hussain was more civil!

Stop making excuses for Israel. They are beating on the Palestinians abusively, and make a terrible noise if Palestine stands up to them and hits back. What other country would be stupid and brutal enough to take over a country, change it's name and keep the former nation's citizens penned up for 50 years, all the while making the pen smaller.

Palestine has every right to retaliate against the people who make war upon her. That includes taking prisoners of war, and being protected by the Geneva Conventions.

What's gonna wind up happening is that some nation is gonna get fed up with this shit and focus its force on Israel. Even though they have nukes, they can still be beat down. And they will deserve every lick, every pain and every loss they get.

Just in case I haven't made myself clear:

from its actions since 1948, I see Israel as a nation of thieves, cowards and unholy belligerents. If that makes me an anti-semite, so be it. There was a time when the paranoia inherent in that curse was well warranted and appropriate, but it is gone now, and the curse is a tell, as if the curser were trying to hide the truth of the expression they are trying to shout down.

I don't think I hate Israel, because if it were to change its ways and stop being a fucken drama drag queen, peace would easily settle upon that land.

But as long as they act like they have more rights than the Palestinians, as long as they believe that what is written (by people) in their holy books is supposed to define and control their behavior toward their neighbors, and as long as they try to convince the world that they are STILL victims, I will have nothing in my heart for Israel but contempt and disappointment.

The Palestinians had a democratic election; we did not like the results; good opportunity to destroy the democratically elected government and have another election that results in a better choice. And they better not vote for Hezzebollah after Hamas falls, or the same thing will happen.

Get your elections in order peoples of the world!

Israel is behaving with an arrogance borne of the knowledge that they will not be seriously criticized or sanctioned by the Bush administration.

Steve,

section9 offers a good perspective, admittedly with a sarcastic tone. What was the point of bringing up the Liberty attack in this context? OK, you're angry. But when odd images or somewhat orthogonal thoughts come to us when angry, we need to reflect on them, not just utter them or (G-d forbid) act on them.

Also, unfortunately, you offer a vision of calm, strong, and wise American decision-making which we might aspire to but don't always reach. For example, in the decisions of the current administration. Having high standards is good. Projecting anger at the failure to hold those high standards onto others is not good.

Pissed off American: Not once did I indicate or imply that your poerspective was anti-semetic, rather I was arguing that your hypothesis regarding Israel's causal role in Iraq was wrongheaded. If you don't like people disagreeing with you that's fine, but don't turn around and try to smear me by implying that I find such perspectvies anti-semetic--I don't.

To be more accurate:

64 Hamas members arrested

38 of them were Members of Parliament (132 member body)

8 of them were ministers (I don't know how many Ministers total).

Source: Financial Times

"Schwartz, this is your view of those events, what Zionists defend as the status quo.

A more realistic look at these actions would declare that "the UN broke international law by demanding and foisting the Zionist Project upon the State of Palestine, partitioning this once fertile and cosmopolitan nation and leaving its original citizens with less than half of their country.

As time has progressed, the Zionist intruders have slaughtered and massacred countless native Palestinians."

Palestine was not a "nation", and there was no "State of Palestine." Its "original citizens" if you will were both Arabs and Jews. And if you go back far enough, they were Jews; go back even further, they were Philistines (and others, I believe). As a matter of historical fact, Jews predate Arabs in Palestine. I believe that Arabs (originally) invaded the land of Palestine, as they did the lands from Saudi Arabia to Morocco and Spain.

I say this not to excuse Israel's behavior or to suggest that Jews have rights that are superior to the Palestinians. I'm not an advocate of Greater Israel, or anything close to that. But I think the historical record will show that this is true.

The UN partitiion and two-state solution was imposed on the region in order to settle increasingly irreconciliable differences and high tensions between the two groups.

A number of people are proposing that the world impose other arrangements on the two sides now. I wonder what that will produce? Who can say for sure. Personally, I llike a lot of what tj has to say about a possible imposed solution.

It's an unfortunate fact--but a fact, I think, nonetheless--that the world map has almost always been drawn and redrawn through some form of violence and the imposition of one group's will on another. We sit here tapping away on Native American land. South and Central Americans speak Spanish because Spain invaded, killed and pillaged. The same is true of the Arab world that stretches from Saudi Arabia to the Atlantic Ocean. The UN is a valiant attempt to change that pattern, and it deserves a lot of support from us.

Perhaps if Europeans--from France to Russia--had let the Jews among them live in peace--or done more to save them--over a century or two--there would have been less impetus for the founding of the State of Israel. This isn't to say that the Palestinians should have to "pay" for what the Europeans did to the Jews. But it's hard to blame the Jews for not wanting to let it happen to them again...and for being touchy on the subject.

If the Palestinians, and the rst of the Arab world, had accepted the two-state solution back in 1948, there would be a Palestinian state today. I think I can say that with some certainty.

The number of comments here regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict reiterates in my mind what I've believed for years. This is a topic that needs to be more publicly debated in America. My own opinion is torn. I love the Jewish people, in NYC they are and always have been at the forefront of the fight for everyones civil rights. They didn't resort to blowing up German coffee shops etc after WWII. For this reason, the Israeli's unfair treatment of the Palestinians has always baffled me. But ultimately I'm American and believe that we have to set our boundaries as a nation and not just go along with everything the Israelis do to the Palestinians. We need to follow our own moral compass. If we continue supporting Israel unconditionally we do it at our peril. Americans need to put American interests first.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/user/12141/recent
BTW if Israel is "so good at dealing with terrorists" why, 80 years later, are they still dealing with them?? The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Thank you for this post, Steve--very measured and courageous. In the American discourse on Israel, your comments are a little drop of reason in a sea of misinformation, one-sidedness and insanity.

Collective punishment, like torture, is a war crime.

Israel and its sponsor America need to stop committing these crimes; and Israel needs to get back behind the 1967 borders where it belongs.

Israel's right to exist depends on the same international laws that Israel and America routinely ignore.

pathetic. a bunch of armchair pundits holding forth on issues they know little about. i wonder how many of the "experts" here have ever stepped foot in the middle east? can we take a poll? has anyone ever visited ramallah or damascus or riyadh or cairo? while we're at it, and while we're comparing others to nazis, who here witnessed the reality of hitler's "final soultion"

this conflict is certainly nothing new. blame israel, blame the arabs, whatever. it's been happening for millenia.

and speaking of bulldozing children, try googling "hama, syria" to see how poor old assad dealt with threats to his safety.

hate is hate and i feel it aplenty in this comments section.

we're all hypocrites, YOU included.

whatever team you're on, count me out.

Steve - While I have been a long time opponent of the Israeli government's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, (as well as a long time alarmist about Islamofacism) I think your analysis rather misses the mark with the current conflict. Putting aside all of the hysterical reactions of some of your pissed off posters, the current crisis could be quickly alleviated simply by Hamas releasing the hostage. That is, the one they have not murdered already. Too late for the 18-year old that was also taken hostage and introduced to a bullet in his head.
While I get your point about the perplexing case of the USS Liberty, and our measured response, I think you have a profound underestimation of the value Israeli society puts on its soldiers. I had the pleasure and honor of visiting Israel in the eighties as part of an inter-faith peace group, and I was struck by how close a society it was and how much more they saw their soldiers as their children than we seem to see our own soldiers. War will bring that out in a people I guess. Clearly the Palestinians don't love their own sons any less, but I remember speaking to a Palestinian father of 8 in Ramallah who shared that he was prepared to sacrifice 5 of his son's to rid the land of Jews. Carroll's accusations of genocidal intent are hysterical and not based in fact at all. If the Israelis had wanted to kill tens of thousands of Palestinians they could have at any time, but despite their ill-conceived occupation they have not done so. Anyways, good luck with this not that you've opened up this can of warms. You'll have all sort of interested creatures crawling out from both sides. I think the earlier poster had a good point about Rove smiling. Try to keep the fleas off.

There appears to be no effective way to discuss the Israeli--Palestinian conflict without the "anti-Semite", "Hitler", and "hate" charges being tossed around like candy at a parade...

Amazing.

from http://www.wingtv.net/documentaries.html

War Crimes and Treason: Israel's Deliberate Attack on the U.S.S. Liberty (1967)

Script by Victor Thorn

Part One -- The U.S.S. Liberty � an introduction

June 8th, 1967 was a clear, sunny day with unlimited visibility. It was such a nice day that as the U.S.S. Liberty floated in international waters 14 miles north of the Sinai Peninsula, sailors were sunbathing on the spy ship�s deck.

===========================================================================================

But all wasn�t as tranquil as the sunny day would convey, for June 8th also marked the 4th day of the 6-Day War, which involved Israel, Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

===========================================================================================

Monitoring this situation was the U.S.S. Liberty, a World War II freighter that had been converted into a spy vessel by the NSA � the National Security Agency. In fact, the Liberty was the most sophisticated and identifiable intelligence ship in the world at the time with dozens of large antennae, state of the art electronic intercept equipment, moon bounce satellite dishes, massive aerials, plus a TRSSCOM system that sent real-time messages to the Pentagon. The Liberty also flew a large 5x8 foot American flag, was freshly painted with large white numbers and letters on its bow and hull, and contained no offensive weaponry except for four 50 caliber machine guns for defensive purposes.

===========================================================================================

These details are important to keep in mind, because at 8:00 am, as the Liberty floated in international waters at less than 5 knots � with a 5x8 foot American flag furling in the wind � a squadron of Israeli jets circled the ship at least a dozen times. These reconnaissance planes flew at such low levels � as close as 200 feet � that the sailors aboard the Liberty actually waved to the Israeli pilots. And, as we will show later in this documentary, those commanding these Israeli jets not only I.D.�d this ship as being of American origin, they also positively I.D.�d it as being the U.S.S. Liberty.

===========================================================================================

Part Two � The Attack

Despite being fully aware of its status, at 2:00 in the afternoon, three unmarked Israeli Mystere and Mirage III fighter jets pummeled the Liberty with rockets and cannon fire. These bombers initially went after the ship�s antennae and electronics dishes, in the process filling the American flag full of holes. As sailors fled for cover, Liberty crewmen hoisted a new, even larger 7x13 foot flag into the air. But this new, even larger flag didn�t stop the Israeli onslaught as they sprayed the Liberty with napalm � the highly incendiary substance burning the sailor�s flesh.

===========================================================================================

While this unprovoked act of war was taking place, radio operators aboard the Liberty tried to signal for help. But their SOS distress messages were not heard because the Israeli�s had deliberately jammed all five of the Liberty�s emergency radio channels � a phenomenon that shows quite clearly that the interfering party was aware of their target beforehand and had previously zeroed in on it, for to jam a stranger�s radio in such a rapid manner is virtually impossible.

===========================================================================================

Unable to get help, the U.S.S. Liberty, with eight sailors already dead and 100 wounded, including Commander William McGonagle, was a sitting duck for the Israeli�s who, at 2:24 pm, sent in three torpedo boats loaded with thousands of pounds of explosives. With their target already in flames, the Israeli�s bombed the Liberty with shells, quickly killing 25 more men.

===========================================================================================

As firefighters and medical personnel tried to put out fires and save their ship and crew, they were repeatedly machine gunned by Israeli aircraft. By 3:15 pm, after it was apparent that the Israeli�s didn�t want to leave a single man alive, the crew abandoned ship. But as the surviving crewmen fled for their lives, Israeli warships, at close range, sprayed those rafts aboard the ship with gunfire, along with those carrying the wounded that had already been lowered into the water. It was a sickening display of brutality and savage inhumanity � a total lack of regard for human life. The Israeli�s wanted NO survivors.

===========================================================================================

When word eventually reached the White House, President Lyndon Baines Johnson assumed that it was the Egyptians attacking our ship, so he immediately dispatched air support which would have reached the Liberty in 40 minutes. But then, when LBJ discovered that it was, in fact, the Israeli�s who were attacking our vessel, he immediately called off the rescue.

===========================================================================================

In other words, Phantom jets already en route from the Sixth Fleet were ordered to turn around and return to their point of origin. Try to let the seriousness of this situation sink in for a moment. Navy fighters launched from the aircraft carriers U.S.S. Saratoga and U.S.S. America were recalled by the White House!

===========================================================================================

But the blame doesn�t stop there. Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and National Security Advisor Walt Rostow at first ordered instantaneous retaliation, but upon discovering that the attack originated from Israel�s Haifa Base, McNamara called off the exercise. In fact, it was reported later that Robert McNamara was so irate when discovering that Liberty radio men contacted the U.S.S. America that he barked, �Tell the Sixth Fleet to get those aircraft back immediately.� Due to this traitorous behavior, the U.S.S. Liberty had to wait 16 hours after the attacks stopped before they were rescued by our military forces. It is the ONLY instance in American naval history that a rescue mission was aborted while an American ship was under attack.

===========================================================================================

In all, the Israeli attack on America�s U.S.S. Liberty � a ship that sat almost motionless in the water with NO offensive weaponry while sailors sunbathed on its deck � lasted for two full hours, equaling the length of Japan�s infamous attack on Pearl Harbor. 821 holes were found in the ship resulting from aircraft rockets, cannon fire, and torpedo blasts, while over 3,000 holes from Israel�s machine gun fire were also counted.

===========================================================================================

Far more tragically, the Israeli�s killed 34 Americans that fateful day, wounded 171 more, and instigated the worst U.S. naval losses since World War II. And even though U.S. Secretary of State Dean Rusk and Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer called this attack deliberate, to this day not one guilty party in Israel or the U.S. has been brought to justice.

===========================================================================================

Part Three � Israeli Lies

Let us make one thing perfectly clear before we proceed. What occurred on June 8th, 1967 was an unmitigated WAR CRIME perpetrated by the nation of Israel against the United States. To make this event even more appalling, Israel continues to lie about it to this day; and even has the audacity to place the impetus of blame on us. A case in point is Brigadier General Yiftah Spector, who flew a Mirage III fighter jet code named �Kursa� and was the first pilot to reach the U.S.S. Liberty. He said, and these are his exact words, �As far as I know, the mistake was of the U.S.S. Liberty for being there in the first place.�

===========================================================================================

But this is only the first of many cowardly lies told by the Israelis to cover their tracks, for now, many years later it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that radio operators in Spain, Lebanon, and Germany heard the Israeli pilots report that they were indeed witnessing an American ship. This revelation was confirmed by U.S. Ambassador Dwight Porter, who had access to radio monitors at the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon.

===========================================================================================

The evidence is even more damning when we learn that Israel had been monitoring the Liberty for a full six month before the attack, while a CIA observer at the Tel Aviv U.S. Embassy revealed that Israeli leaders had already decided on June 7th � a day before the attacks � to sink the U.S.S. Liberty if it came into what they considered �the war zone� � i.e. international waters.

===========================================================================================

If you find all of this hard to swallow, then consider what Major Seth Mintz, who was in the Tel Aviv war room during the attacks, said. �Every person in that room knew without a doubt that it was an American ship and that it was the U.S.S. Liberty. There were many comments about the markings, about the extra large U.S. flag. There was never any discussion about the ship not being American. But General Dayan ordered the attack anyway. We Israelis were guilty of an outrage.� (Source � Jim Taylor in the American Free Press, August 4, 2003)

===========================================================================================

We will get to Moshe Dayan�s role in this sordid affair a little later, but first let�s weigh in with what senior Israeli pilot Evan Toni told Congressman Pete McCloskey. He said that while on air patrol that day, he immediately recognized the U.S.S. Liberty, informed headquarters of its status, and was told to ignore the American flag and attack. When he refused and returned to base, he was arrested on the spot for refusing to follow orders. Another pilot confirmed this report, stating that orders came directly from IDF � the Israeli Defense Force � to attack the Liberty, and when he said that he saw an American flag, they once again told him to �attack it.�

===========================================================================================

But the Israeli�s continued to tell lie after lie following the attacks, the first being that there had been only ONE aircraft involved in the attack, and that the Liberty was sailing at high speed. But please remember that the Liberty was floating at only 5 knots and that when it was dragged into port at Valleta, Malta it was filled with 821 rocket and cannon fire holes, plus over 3,000 machine gun blasts.

===========================================================================================

The Israeli�s also lied by saying that they mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian ship � the El Quseir. But let�s examine this obviously fabricated tale. First of all, there were no Egyptian naval exercises that day. Secondly, the Liberty was twice the El Quseir�s length, four-times its weight, and had a totally different appearance. Thirdly, Egyptian ships have their numbers painted in black and in Arabic, while U.S. ships paint their letters in white and in the English language. Finally, our life rafts clearly had U.S. Navy written on them. Any member of the Israeli Defense Force would be familiar with such distinctions, and to say otherwise is a bald-faced lie.

===========================================================================================

But the evidence doesn�t end there. Unbeknownst to the Israeli�s, on June 8th, 1967 the U.S. Navy had a top-secret EC-121 intelligence aircraft flying overhead the U.S.S. Liberty that recorded the entire affair. When the IDF discovered the whereabouts of this surveillance plane, they gave orders to shoot it from the sky! Think about the completely savage disregard for American lives displayed by the Israeli�s. Luckily the EC-121 evaded the Israeli missiles or we would have had even more casualties that day.

===========================================================================================

With all of this information in mind, the most obvious question is: who ordered these attacks on the Liberty? The answer, quite simply, is Israeli Defense Minister General Moshe Dayan, who served under Prime Minister Levi Eshkol. This explosive news has been confirmed by many different sources, including a CIA report which states uncategorically: �Dayan personally ordered the attack on the ship, and that one of his generals adamantly opposed the action, saying, �This is pure murder�.� But Moshe Dayan, in addition to being a cold-blooded murderer, was also a liar, for he said that he commanded the Israeli Air Force to cease and desist as soon as they saw U.S. lettering on the Liberty. But the fact of the matter is quite different: they kept firing well beyond that point, and only quit when hearing that American aircraft were on their way to rescue the ship. Moshe Dayan is, ladies and gentlemen, a truly despicable human being, and should go down in the annals of history as a war criminal on par with any Nazi butcher.

===========================================================================================

Part Four � U.S. Government Cover-up

In the aftermath of Israel�s lies and heinous behavior, Senator Barry Goldwater and Adlai Stevenson both called for full investigations, while a secret 1976 Naval Board of Inquiry report concluded that Israel�s attack upon the Liberty had been deliberate. In addition, a recent Independent Commission of Inquiry declared that Israel had committed �an act of war� against the U.S. Captain Ward Boston, in a signed affidavit, even went so far as to say that Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara told those heading a Navy inquiry to �conclude that the attack was a case of mistaken identity despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.�

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Yet to this day, similar to the terrorist attacks on 9-11, no one has been held accountable, no one has stood up to take responsibility, and none of the guilty parties have been brought to justice. Why? What were LBJ and Robert McNamara trying to cover-up?

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By law, Lyndon Johnson knew that he had to order an investigation of this attack. But he was mortally afraid that the public would learn about his orders NOT save the Liberty by calling back aircraft that were already en route to rescue our ship. Johnson�s actions were so unforgivable that he actually uttered at one point, �I don�t care how many Americans are attacked; I will not attack our friend and ally, Israel.� You know the old saying: with friends like that, who needs enemies?

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Anyone who has read Michael Collins Piper�s Final Judgment already knows what a lackey and subservient boot-licker LBJ was to the nation of Israel; while a report in the Spotlight newspaper on November 21, 1977 pointed out that CIA counter-intelligence chief James J. Angleton also helped Israel in orchestrating this attack. In the end, LBJ brought in the ultimate Washington D.C. fixer � and later BCCI bank fraud criminal � Clark Clifford to help smooth over this mess, then pawned-off the investigation to a spineless Navy Admiral named John S. McCain Jr., father of current Arizona senator and one-time presidential candidate John McCain.

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Part Five � The McCain Hearings

Since the U.S.S. Liberty was attacked by Israel on June 8th, 1967 there have been 13 quote-unquote �official� hearings into this matter, but not once has a surviving Liberty crewman been allowed to testify. Not only that, the first hearing presided over by John McCain Jr. was held in secret, the press was barred from attendance, and every soldier and NSA agent aboard the ship was told they would be court-martialed if they ever testified before any commission. The government�s cover-up was so heavy-handed that military officers even imprisoned certain sailors against their will in psychiatric wards, drugged them, and threatened them with electroshock to keep them from speaking.

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As mentioned earlier, the first U.S.S. Liberty hearings were overseen by Admiral John S. McCain Jr., who was the European Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Navy, and were subsequently carried out by Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Thomas Moorer. Despite the seriousness of these attacks, Admiral McCain only gave his investigators one week to gather evidence.

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But Admiral McCain�s loathsome behavior didn�t end there, for he is quoted as telling those sailors who went against the official party line, �Shut up; we don�t want to hear that. If you ever tell the truth you�ll be court-martialed and spend the rest of your life in a military prison at Fort Leavenworth.�

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Even more peculiar, it was later discovered that on June 6th, 1967 � two days before the Liberty�s attack � the Joint Chiefs of Staff sent Admiral McCain an urgent message telling him to move the Liberty at least a 100 miles off the Gaza Coast. John McCain Jr. never forwarded this message. Why?

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To implicate himself even further, Admiral McCain�s instructions to Rear Admiral Kidd before the hearings were twofold: limit their damage to the Pentagon, and � get this � protect Israel�s reputation! As an aside, I have to ask one question: whatever happened to bringing the guilty parties to justice? With these ground rules firmly in place, even though Admirals Moorer and Kidd believed with certainty that Israel�s attack on the Liberty was deliberate � and that the Israeli pilots involved, as well as their superiors, knew it was an American ship � they still ruled it a case of mistaken identity.

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Admiral McCain ultimately approved these conclusions even though Captain Merlin Staring, a Navy legal officer, said the 700-page report was flawed, incomplete, and contrary to the evidence. Worse, when Newsweek magazine ran an expose� on the Liberty, Admiral McCain was enraged; so much so that he placed every surviving crewman under a gag order.

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Years later, Arizona Senator John McCain penned a biography entitled Faith of My Fathers. On the book jacket it said, �John McCain learned about life and honor from his grandfather and father, both four-star admirals in the U.S. Navy. This is a memoir about their lives, their heroism, and the ways that sons are shaped and enriched by their fathers.� Senator McCain, I ask you now, what kind of honor is found in betraying your country? What kind of honor is found in selling-out the lives of those sailors who died aboard the U.S.S. Liberty? And Senator McCain, what kind of heroism is shaped from covering-up this matter for over 35 years? I think the only kind of honor and heroism that you � an influential U.S. Senator - can display right now is by immediately re-opening this investigation and shining the bright light of justice on those guilty parties who acted so reprehensibly and were responsible for this tragic, sickening event.

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Part Six � Israel�s Motives

At this point, the utmost question on everyone�s mind should be: what were Israel�s motives in attacking the U.S.S. Liberty? We will provide those answers in a moment, but first, please remember that the Israeli leaders at that time only �admitted their mistake� after Lyndon Johnson made a half-hearted threat to cut off their undeniable lifeblood � U.S. financial aid. Only then did they come up with their cock-n-bull story that the attacks were due to �mistaken identity.�

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So, what were Israel�s motives? First and foremost, Israel attacked the U.S.S. Liberty in a blatant Pearl Harbor fashion; then absolutely tried to leave NO SURVIVORS and no trace of responsibility because they wanted to blame it on the Egyptians, thus drawing America into the Six Day War on Israel�s side. By turning U.S. sentiment against the Arab world, we would thus feel justified in invading the Middle East. Such a scenario is pertinent even today, especially in light of the many Israeli ties to the 9-11 terrorist attacks, our perpetual war in the Gulf, and the fact that Israel�s primary objective has been, and always will be, the primacy of the Jewish state.

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Secondly, Israeli Ambassador Avraham Harmon assured President Lyndon Johnson that Israel would not attack Syria during their Six Day War. But the Israeli�s had already amassed troops along the West Bank and the Golan Heights, and were primed for further invasions. But with the U.S.S. Liberty positioned off the Sinai Peninsula, it would be readily able to send back reports that Israel had indeed lied and violated their agreement. Thus, similar to their Pearl Harbor-style attack on the Egyptians (who still had their fighter jets parked on the runway) to begin the Six Day War, the Israeli�s could only engage in a similar attack on Syria after they Pearl Harbored the U.S.S. Liberty and removed it from the picture.

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Lastly, on the very day that the Liberty was sunk, the Israeli Defense Force, specifically Ariel �Bulldozer� Sharon, who was the commander of an armored division, was in the process of slaughtering and executing at least a thousand Egyptian and Palestinian prisoners of war, then burying them beneath the sands of the Sinai Desert. Israeli army officers admitted to this massacre years later � a clear and undeniable example of another war crime committed by the nation of Israel. Tragically, Ariel Sharon�s inhumane behavior hasn�t changed much since then, as can be seen from the way America�s Rachel Corrie was BULLDOZED to death by the Israeli military in 2003.

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Part Seven � Conclusion

In the end, we must ask ourselves: why does the nation of Israel hold such a diabolical, hypnotic sway over the United States? After bombing the U.S.S. Liberty on June 8th, 1967, were the Israeli leaders apologetic for their heinous actions? No. Instead, they called the sailors who tried to reveal the truth anti-Semitic Israel haters.

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Even worse, why is our own government acting in the same way? If ANY other country in the world would have acted in a similar fashion and committed this act of war, we would have retaliated with a vengeance. This can be seen from Lyndon Johnson�s initial reaction when he thought Egyptian forces had attacked the Liberty. He immediately dispatched fighter planes to bomb the hell out of them and rescue our ship. But upon discovering that in fact Israel was the guilty party, he called back our jets and allowed the Liberty to be further pummeled.

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Ladies and gentlemen, this was an indisputable act of treason committed by Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara, and the subsequent kangaroo court cover-up hearings conducted by John McCain Jr. were clearly an obstruction of justice to the utmost degree. With that in mind, we need to ask ourselves another question: why is the U.S. government more concerned with covering for the Israelis, especially after they had been caught red-handed bombing the U.S.S. Liberty, than they are in getting justice for the families of those who were brutally killed? Plus, why weren�t the guilty Israeli�s brought to trial and convicted of war crimes? Finally, why hasn�t the Israeli government been publicly told in no uncertain terms to never ever again kill an American citizen?

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Even more sickening is the case of a Wisconsin town that wanted to re-name its public library in honor of the U.S.S. Liberty. But instead of applauding this patriotic effort, pro-Israeli action groups campaigned to label this town anti-Semitic, while the U.S. government demanded that no Navy personnel was allowed to attend the ceremony. What truly despicable behavior.

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Another point we would like to discuss is: after Israel blatantly betrayed America by attacking the Liberty, how much financial aid did we cut off to them? The answer: none. Not a red cent. Also, did you know that even though Israel is the world�s 16th wealthiest nation, and even though it only accounts for one-tenth of one-percent of the world�s total population, they still receive over 1/3 of all U.S. foreign aid? In fact, in 1997 alone, the total amount of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel, plus the interest costs associated with these payments, came to a whopping 8.7 billion dollars! That means we�re giving them nearly $24 million a day � every day. And when we say give, we mean precisely that, for our U.S. Congress has forgiven every single loan ever made to Israel and laid the entire cost of the principal and the interest in the laps of the American taxpayer. Worse, in 2002, a year of great economic peril in the U.S. where millions of our workers were losing jobs and the deficit was soaring through the roof, Israel had the audacity to ask for another $14 billion in annual aid. That comes to us giving them over $38 million a day. Folks, something is seriously wrong with this picture, and we need to start taking action to correct it.

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In our opinion, the first step in regard to the U.S.S. Liberty is to expose the following men for their part in the attack and cover-up: Moshe Dayan, Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, John S. McCain Jr., and Ariel Sharon. These individuals are war criminals, traitors, and are guilty of either betrayal or treason. The pages of history should remember and recount their barbaric behavior.

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The first step in bringing closure to this situation would be for current Arizona Senator John McCain to hold public, full-disclosure hearings to set the record straight instead of sidling up to the Israeli government and covering up these sordid actions. Senator McCain, as an influential U.S. Senator, you have the resources to accomplish this feat, and until you right the numerous wrongs committed against the Liberty on June 8, 1967, we feel you are one-in-the-same as the above-mentioned men.

Why are you going back forty years to cite Israeli crimes against America? Have we already forgotten the Israeli spy rings rounded up ON AMERICAN SOIL and deported in the days following 9/11??? Does the name "Franklin" ring any bells here???

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html

1947. Information collected by the ADL in its spy operations on US citizens is used by the House Select Committee on Unamerican Activities. Subcommittee Chair Clare Hoffman dismisses the ADL’s reports on suspected communists as “hearsay."

1950 John Davitt, former chief of the Justice Department's internal security section notes that the Israeli intelligence service is the second most active in the United States after the Soviets.

1954 A hidden microphone planted by the Israelis is discovered in the Office of the US Ambassador in Tel Aviv.

1956 Telephone taps are found connected to two telephones in the residence of the US military attaché in Tel Aviv.

1954 "The Lavon Affair". Israeli agents recruit Egyptian citizens of Jewish descent to bomb Western targets in Egypt, and plant evidence to frame Arabs, in an apparent attempt to upset US-Egyptian relations. Israeli defense minister Pinchas Lavon is eventually removed from office, though many think real responsibility lay with David Ben-Gurion.

1965 Israel apparently illegally obtains enriched uranium from NUMEC Corporation. (Washington Post, 6/5/86, Charles R. Babcock, "US an Intelligence Target of the Israelis, Officials Say.")

1967 Israel attacks the USS Liberty, an intelligence gathering vessel flying a US flag, killing 34 crew members. See "Assault on the Liberty," by James M. Ennes, Jr. (Random House). In 2004, Captain Ward Boston, Senior Legal Counsel for the Navy’s Court of Inquiry into the attack swears under oath that President Lyndon Johnson ordered the investigation to conclude accident, even though the evidence indicates the attack was deliberate. Given the use by Israel of unmarked boats and planes, and the machine-gunning of USS Liberty’s lifeboats, the most likely explanation is that USS Liberty was to be sunk with all hands, with evidence left to frame Egypt for the sinking. This would have dragged the US into the war on Israel’s side.

1970 While working for Senator Henry “Scoop” Jackson, Richard Perle is caught by the FBI giving classified information to Israel. Nothing is done.

1978, Stephen Bryen, then a Senate Foreign Relations Committee staffer, is overheard in a DC