Steve-- regarding the "soldiers angry at Bush" thing, did you catch the NPR interview with Lt. Rushing? He indicated that in his experience, there was a split between those who were frustrated with the war and still supported Bush because they had to believe in what they were doing, and those who were fed up and were turning against him. Of course, he didn't have any more information than his own observations.

Steve,
commercial freight carriers do transport military coffins from the Gulf and elsewhere.

You will recall the case in April of this year of Maytag Aircraft Corporation whose employee photographed some flag-draped coffins leading to a Pentagon effort to ban further such photographs. Maytag is one of six charter freight carriers with a DoD contract for the Gulf/Iraq theater that is not limited to, but includes, transport of military coffins.

So it does not seem in any way unusual that an American carrier from Europe would be handling a coffin from a DoD medical facility in Germany under a DoD freight contract.

JohnStuartinChevy Chase.

I am a Delta retiree with no current information, but it has been common in the past to transport military remains on scheduled airlines.

During Vietnam, we often had 100 caskets transit Atlanta in a day. We even built special transporters to keep them secure and separated from ordinary freight or express.

"I didn't dig into this. But there have been many who have written that it is just impossible for a United Airlines flight from Frankfurt to have a body of a soldier on board."

These are the same people who say that if Kerry had been....(fill in the blank), we would be speaking German now, or, (fill in any other awful possibility). The same people who said we would never land on the moon, and believe it happened to be filmed in a studio on earth. Almost nothing is impossible, just improbable. There is a big difference between writing science fiction and doing science. If dogs are used to find cadavers and can detect the presence of cancerous tumors in patients, and even the bio-electrical activity in a human brain that precedes an onset of an epileptic episode, we can't be too far behind the curve with the help of a little technology. The fact remains, your instincts are working well. The truthfulness of this story is more than less, and it is not an isolated case. You are a reality based American. Congratulations.

Perhaps these were something other than intruments for DNA analysis, but the fact that the military uses sensors of all types and radically new technologies should surprise no one.

"Secondly, some people have gone nearly apoplectic at the story the soldier shared about long probes being shoved through rock and dirt to take blood and tissue samples from some killed at Tora Bora. He described long pole like probes with a puncture prick at one end and a box reading device on top. Science fiction writers have even written to me saying that the notion of something like the soldier described was too incredible to believe.

I really have no doubt that the soldier I spoke to believed that these were in-the-field DNA readers and recorders. Whether they were or not is a different question."

yes, military dead can be freighted via commercial carriers.

and yes, even military gravereg transports can unload at sites other than dover.

during the vietnam era, coffins were flown into bolling afb that i know of. and probably other fields. especially west coast bases.

it wouldn't surprise me if some numbers of iraq dead went east, via diego garcia, then to guam, then to west coast.

anything will be done by this bunch to hide the quantities of casualties. and the press, just as they did 40-50 years ago, will refrain from reporting.

you might think that the families of the dead would be the resource for the accurate count. you would be wrong. it is my assertion that there are families who think their sons, brothers, sisters, daughters, husbands, wives are still alive - because they get a few emails from them.

but, my guess is that someday in the future you might find that those emails were generated by a special g2 unit, whose mission was to hide the deaths so that the enemy[the iraqi maquis] could not construct a clear usa order of battle.

it is much worse than you can imagine. it will end up being as monstrous a defeat as the one suffered by england in afghanistan in the 18th century.

applause.

In June, I returned from a trip to Washington, D. C. (for my father's funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, ironically enough) on a Continental flight from Washington-Baltimore to Houston Intercontinental. There was an enlisted man (army, I think) on board who had a long discussion with the airline personnel at the gate. He was let on the plane before anyone else. When we arrived in Houston, the flight attendents made an announcement on the P.A. to remain seated while the soldier got off because he was the honor guard for a fallen soldier. I don't remember exactly what they said, but the clear suggestion was that the soldier was accompanying the body of someone who had died in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Steve,
This is OT, but I think that a major story broke today. As you know, part of the 9/11 commission's report was withheld. An article today

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041030/pl_afp/us_vote_attacks_report

contains information about the timeline on the intercepts. In particular, it shows that the FAA was slow notifying the military and that the White House lied to the commission on when the notification occurred.

>

That's the solid part.. there is also wild tinfoil-hat type speculation based on the following tidbits:

1) Bin Laden said that Bush gave the hijackers 3 times the length of time they needed for the hijacking.

2) Bob Dole's former chief of staff says that Bush personally ordered the attacks. You don't happen to know this guy do you?
(ack, having trouble getting the link. I doubt you really want to read it. The guy doesn't sound credible. )

Anyway, the story about the intercept timeline really has legs, IMO.

Also, did you know that Walter Cronkite said he thought Rove was behind the Bin Laden tape? He told this to Larry King. I heard the tape was made in early September, so the thought that Rove was behind the timing is not completely out of the question. Apparently the State Dept. was begging Al Jazeera NOT to broadcast the type, so it's plausible that Rove was begging them to broadcast it before the election.

oh *****
Part of my last post didn't show up---the quote from the article. My browser is going to do an "illegal operation" on me before I can get the link again, and I'm off to bed. The relevant part is the paragraph on the FAA testimony to the 9/11 commission.

Re: soldier's remains.

Found this Army web site which is an FAQ for military families on casualties:
https://www.perscomonline.army.mil/tagd/cmaoc/cmaocfaq.htm#19

"When will the remains of Soldiers be returned to their families?
"As soon as possible, although times may vary by situation. Generally, Soldiers' remains returning from overseas will be processed through an overseas mortuary and/or Dover Air Force Base in Delaware and then taken to the area their families have requested.

"Where will the remains enter the United States?
"Current plans are for all remains to be returned to Dover AFB, Delaware, or direct shipment to the servicing funeral home from the United States Army Mortuary Affairs Activity-Europe in Landstuhl, Germany."

So it seems to be up to the family whether or not the body goes to Dover. If the remains go elsewhere, most likely civilian aircraft would be used.

The putative DNA probe most likely distinguished human DNA from DNA of other organisms.

The only way that the probe could have been specific for an individual is if we already had a DNA sample or the individual had a known disease with a known genetic variation like Hypercoaggulation Disorder.

The technology you described, though, was certainly available during the Battle at Tora Bora.

The best piece I've seen on transportation of soldier remains was in this New Yorker: Two soldiers.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040809fa_fact1

Technically they are not coffins at all but rather "transfer cases":

~~~~~~~snip~~~~~~~~

Finally, they lift the pouched remains into a rectangular aluminum “transfer case” and drape the case with a flag, placing the starred blue field at the upper left, over the soldier’s heart. They carry the case, feet first, to a truck that will take it to one of several military airfields. When they need to set the case down, they always lay it flat on the floor. They never stack cases unless a mass-casualty emergency yields limited floor space. Once on the trucks, the transfer cases leave the custody of the ninety-two mikes.

Ritual and tradition attend every step of a dead soldier’s journey. At the airfield, soldiers and airmen stand at attention, flanking the ramp. Others unload the cases and carry them into the bulbous cargo bay of an Air Force transport jet. They lay them on the floor in a neat grid. It was photographs of flag-draped transfer cases—not “coffins”—on the floor of a transfer jet that made the rounds of the Internet and major newspapers in April. From Kuwait, the transfer cases are flown to one of two military mortuaries: at Dover Air Force Base, in Delaware, or at the Army’s Regional Medical Center in Landstuhl, Germany.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you read that piece you will be greatly moved.

When I first visted this site of American Iraqi war dead:

http://www.iraqwar-memorial.com/name.html

I clicked at randon on a name to see what would open up. Almost supernaturally I had randomly clicked the name "Bangayan." He is one of the two soldiers featured in the New Yorker piece.

That was a doubly poignant moment to say the least.

Think about that as you gaze at all those names, and realize each was once an equally engaging human being.

What a waste. To even try to imagine 100,000 more names of Iraqi origin just boggles the mind.

What a war crime against humanity...
What a one-fingered victory salute...

http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov

What a travesty.

I just love it when you realize that's exactly what all the "know it alls" claiming this story was Bvllsh!t are full of. Bvllsh!t! Yet Bush can say anything, no matter how absurd, and they fall to their knees before him like obsequious supplicants. They are truly deranged. They are lucky Reagan emptied all the asylums, otherwise that's where they'd be today.

"2) Bob Dole's former chief of staff says that Bush personally ordered the attacks. You don't happen to know this guy do you?
(ack, having trouble getting the link. I doubt you really want to read it. The guy doesn't sound credible. )

Anyway, the story about the intercept timeline really has legs, IMO.

Also, did you know that Walter Cronkite said he thought Rove was behind the Bin Laden tape? He told this to Larry King. I heard the tape was made in early September, so the thought that Rove was behind the timing is not completely out of the question. Apparently the State Dept. was begging Al Jazeera NOT to broadcast the type, so it's plausible that Rove was begging them to broadcast it before the election."

Dole, as a senator would not have a Chief of Staff, press secretary perhaps. I do know that one of the pilots that was dispatched to the towers was looking for threats coming from the seaward side, i.e., the threat from the cold war, Had he gotten the order to fire, he was looking the wrong way in any case, he was looking for a conventional attack with a sea fired missle. This reflects our backward thinking at the time, or lack thereof. It was totally FUBARed.

I saw Cronkite on King, I must have missed that part, but I think more people than you realize have already put two and two together.

The only thing I know is that there have been credible reports of a lot of pissed off groundhogs around Tora Bora with sore asses.

Well what do they do with the dead mercenaries?

I tell you, I'm less interested in sci fi DNA gear and body transport.

What I really want to hear more about this invasion of Cuba??? Is it possible that that story is true?

Of everything in your soldiers story, that was for me the Wacko line. But if it is true...

God help us.

Troll -- I agree that the Cuba comment was one of the shockers for me as well. I will be posting a longer note on Cuba -- doing the same thing I did with these two other issues, but doing it after the election. There are many people in the 82nd Airborne writing to me now -- and they may be helpful later on in sorting out the Cuba comment.
Best regards,
Steve Clemons

This country has been coveting Cuba since 1808 when Thomas Jefferson sent General James Wilkinson there to find out if the Spanish would cede her to the US.

The history of Cuba is one long story of Big Brother bossing and bullying that tiny island in every way imaginable.

So... when I saw that comment, it didn't surprise me in the least. In fact, I expect detailed plans for the invasion exist. AND... only the steadfast Iraqi resistance has kept them from being executed.

I'd bet the ranch on it.

Because to use the words of Bush against Bush: "I know how those people think." Bush is a Christian Julius Ceasar... with all the weaponry but none of the talent.

In short--the only reason Cuba hasn't been invaded is because Osama bin Laden has at least 40 IQ points on Bush.

Which is to say: the smarter bully has lured the dumber bully into a vast desert, and is going to bleed his resources into the sand.

If I wasn't an American...it'd be almost fun to watch. But given that I am a Yank, the whole thing makes me ill. Watching your country swirl around a bushhole is bushit.

Well what do they do with the dead mercenaries?

Alpo?

If by "dead mercenaries" the writers are asking about dead American security contractors in Iraq then the answer is straightforward. The contract firm (Blackwter, Kroll, etc) handles the disposition of bodies using private carriers and private freight forwarders. The contracting firm is fully reimbursed (cost plus).

If by "dead mercenaries" the writers are asking about the less well remunerated Nepalis, Pakistanis, Egyptians and others who work in the second and third tier of the security business, the story is not so tidy. They usually become the responsibility of their respective Embassies in Baghdad. Many of these embassies lack the funds for proper disposition.

Some wire back to relatives in the home country asking families to send the cost of shipment (which is quite high). But, in the end, many Nepalis and Indians and Pakistanis and others are interred in unmarked graves with little or no ceremony beyond that afforded by their colleagues.
JohnStuartinChevyChase

This is such a cool blog. Do you need helpers?

Mr. Clemons -

with regard to the "DNA stick," I believe Bianco probably has it. It was reported in 2001 that "we" had a DNA sample from a cooperative bin Ladin relative, and samples were being sent back to the US for processing.

From a quick search:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,631902,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/05/08/wbin08.xml

However, in the main, the "soldier's story" does sound embellished, at least. Whether he was having you on, or just a natural BS artist, who can say?

Vice President Dick Cheney said the invasion of Iraq will go down in history, along with the war in Afghanistan, for its "brilliance."

George Orwell called it "Newspeak" in his book 1984 - deliberately ambiguous and contradictory language used to mislead and manipulate the public.

Perhaps now we should call it "BUSHSPEAK and CHENEYSPEAK". Karl Rove has twisted the truth with such fierce Orwellian MENDACITY to spin a "FANTASY Bushworld" that FICTION and EXCUSES have replaced FACTS and ACCOUNTABILITY.

I think historians will judge George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as the most demagogic President and Vice President in American history.

Mark, Dole did have a chief of staff--Sheila Burke.
http://www.cms.hhs.gov/about/history/Burke.asp