Charles Kupchan’s “How Enemies Become Friends”

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I really like former Clinton administration National Security Council official and Council on Foreign Relations Senior Fellow Charles Kupchan‘s new book, How Enemies Become Friends: The Sources of Stable Peace.
Rather than taking yet another tired swipe at why war breaks out, Kupchan takes a refreshing and interesting look at where and why peace breaks out between warring parties.
During a longer book talk that I had the pleasure of hosting at the New America Foundation, Kupchan, who also is a Professor of Political Science at Georgetown University, runs through some historical cases of his peace breakouts and offers some thoughts on President Obama’s engagement efforts with nations not currently in the America’s friends camp.
The chat above is just a few minutes and will give folks a sense of the book, which I highly recommend to folks.
– Steve Clemons

Comments

70 comments on “Charles Kupchan’s “How Enemies Become Friends”

  1. Facebook Application Development says:

    There should be a deal behind this friendship, and if you seen this video v\carefully you found a thing which is hidden and not exposed in this deal.

    Reply

  2. ... says:

    lol paul.. exactly… in these fanatics wildest dreams it is always something like this…

    Reply

  3. Paul Norheim says:

    10,000 tons of Cocaine?
    I was under the impression that these Eurabians were smuggling
    a handful of nukes hidden under ten million copies of the
    Protocols of the Elders!

    Reply

  4. nadine says:

    “From a “purely military point of view”, I think something went
    very very wrong – it could be the result of using untrained
    people, yes. What surprised me was the fact that they attacked in
    international sea – and that’s a decision coming from the top.”
    We will find out more about who made that decision. Israel had advised both Turkey and Europe that it would intercept the flotilla, so I think that in a normal legal interpretation (one where Israel isn’t automatically judged in the wrong, regardless of evidence), the issue of precisely where the flotilla was stopped would not be that important. If somebody announced a flotilla of drug smugglers in the Caribean heading to the US coast with a 10,000 tons of cocaine, I cannot imagine there would be fuss over exactly where they were intercepted.

    Reply

  5. marcus says:

    Sweetness; your right, after a bit of research I have ascertained that in that particular airstrike on may 20 involving 20 jets there indeed were no casualties.
    On the otherhand one doesn`t have to dig to deep to find evidence of turkish war crimes…some on a genocidal scale.
    BTW; Thank-you for your civil response to my post,it`s the first one here at the always friendly TWN, except for a lovely compliment I once recieved from WigWag,(which I haven`t forgotten.)
    PS. Nadine thanks for those leads(into the pervese minds of too many ) I`m going to check those out one day and thank-you for your posts upholding truth and historical accuracy,not fun ; what with pos and some of the other basterds who post here.
    and …, fact is that turkey funded and enabled this assault on the soveirgn naval territory of Israel which extends 85 miles off-shore (the boarding was at 70 miles out)
    Cyprus,it should be noted did not participate in this illegal attempt to break the naval blockade of Gaza.
    That`s the thing you see,under the auspices of international law the blockade is legal,whereas this flottila was not.

    Reply

  6. Paul Norheim says:

    “From a purely military — I emphasize purely military — point of
    view, this recent IDF operation was similar to the invasion of
    Lebanon in 2006, in that they went in with untrained people and
    too little force.” (Don Bacon)
    From a “purely military point of view”, I think something went
    very very wrong – it could be the result of using untrained
    people, yes. What surprised me was the fact that they attacked in
    international sea – and that’s a decision coming from the top.

    Reply

  7. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Amazing, isn’t it?
    Marcus. Birnbaum. Nadine. Have you ever seen such scum? Is it any wonder that Israel is loathed by the global community, with these kinds of defenses and justifications being raised to explain Israeli crimes against humanity?

    Reply

  8. Sweetness says:

    Marcus, the bombing in Iraq does sound pretty bad, but the Kurds are not reporting any casualties.
    Plenty of news about it all over, however. I found one article in Huff and another in the Guardian.

    Reply

  9. Don Bacon says:

    From a purely military — I emphasize purely military — point of view, this recent IDF operation was similar to the invasion of Lebanon in 2006, in that they went in with untrained people and too little force. The difference this time is that the IDF had firearms and their enemies did not, so the IDF raiders were forced by their poor military performance to fire their weapons (sidearms).
    The IDF apparently made the wrong assumption that they could use military force to board a civilian ship on the high seas without encountering any forceful resistance. Some people just don’t grasp the concept of human blowback to invaders.
    Just as in the Lebanon mistake, the poor IDF performance, which differs markedly from their previous vaunted reputation, has caused severe problems for the Israeli leadership, this time for the Kent-State style of over-reaction. That’s the good part.

    Reply

  10. ... says:

    must always cultivate the ‘victim status’ at any cost…. it was self defense! that is why they were murdered!!!!! israel is always the victim!!!

    Reply

  11. ... says:

    nadine qoute “the real purpose of this invasion.”
    thanks for the hasbara viewpoint nadine…
    according to marcus it’s all turkey’s fault!!!
    nothing is ever about the fanaticism oozing from israel or the zionist camp, ever….

    Reply

  12. larry birnbaum says:

    The Israelis obviously weren’t prepared and people died as a result. However the people who were killed or injured by Israeli military action put themselves in harm’s way. You don’t sail into a naval blockade without risking violence. And attacking a boarding party pretty much guarantees it. This isn’t like civilians caught in the crossfire. I’m not remotely sympathetic.

    Reply

  13. Tony C. says:

    “Gaza

    Reply

  14. nadine says:

    marcus, when your only moral imperative is to be indiscriminately undiscriminating, you will always wind up siding with the terrorists. Google Evan Sayet, he explains this very well. Alan Bloom noted it 30 years ago in his seminal “The Closing of the American Mind.”
    The Kurds are on their own, and they know it. Turkey would have to kill 50,000 at once to even rate a mention in the Western press, and maybe not even then.
    Actually, the Kurds are probably smiling over this Gaza flotilla business, not because they have any love lost for Hamas, but because the more Turkey declares itself an enemy of Israel, the less Israel has to risk by a covert alliance with the Kurds. My enemy’s enemy…

    Reply

  15. nadine says:

    Gaza

    Reply

  16. PissedOffAmerican says:

    US activist loses eye after being shot in face with tear gas canister
    Posted on: May 31, 2010
    31 May 2010
    US citizen Emily Henochowicz was shot directly in the face with a tear gas canister as she non-violently demonstrated against the Flotilla massacre
    American activist loses eye after being shot in face with tear gas canister
    31 May 2010: An American solidarity activist was shot in the face with a tear gas canister during a demonstration in Qalandiya, today. Emily Henochowicz is currently in Hadassah Hospital in Jerusalem undergoing surgery to remove her left eye, following the demonstration that was held in protest to Israel

    Reply

  17. ... says:

    israels line : self defense, lol….
    meanwhile they have murdered more innocent folks…

    Reply

  18. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Some of the photos the Israelis are releasing, supposedly showing crazed Muslims “attacking” Israeli commandos, are DAYTIME shots. Amazing, eh?
    Whats equally amazing is Israel’s constant mantra about a “right to defend themselves”. Apparently, civilian activists, being attacked on the high seas, share no such “right”.
    Perhaps we will see the Turks assasinate a few Israeli officials, and maybe an American Congressman or two for supporting state terrorism. Isn’t this what Israel does on a regular basis, while claiming the moral high ground?? I in no way condone political assassination, or state sponsored acts of terrorism, but perhaps the time has come for the Muslim community to seize their OWN “right to defend themselves”.
    And as I pointed out above, make no mistake, this CRIME, committed by Israel on the high seas, reflects as badly on the United States as it does on Israel. And we can hardly expect Obama or Clinton to react in a manner that does anything other than to further erode our credibility and ability to mediate a “peace process”.
    As Israel shits in the outstretched hand of one prior “ally” after another, how far down the crapper will we allow this arrogant little racist country to drag us? At least the Turks have the common sense and spine to know when they are being shat upon. Obama and Hillary seem to be content to sit down and eat it for lunch, all the while thanking Israel for the meal.

    Reply

  19. Carroll says:

    Dear Turkey….
    You have a very big navy, eighth largest in the world, Israel has a very small navy. You are member of NATO. Israel is not a member of NATO.
    Why don’t you just send one of your warships to deliver aid to Gaza? Dare Israel to attack you in international waters or even in Gaza seaport waters….they will, they are that stupid….then you can blow them to hell in full compliance with international law.
    I don’t think even the US zionazis could get the US to attack a fellow NATO member for responding to an Israeli attack at sea on a Turkish navy ship…do you?
    Oh sure, our zionazis in congress would be demanding that we ‘nuke’ you for daring to defend your own ships at sea from an Israeli attack….but really the US Naval command and probably the entire Armed Forces command would all resign before they followed that order….so go for it.
    Do it Turkey.

    Reply

  20. DonS says:

    Nadine, your chutzpah does not disappoint, and you follow the script. The increasingly radical Israeli state propaganda machine rolls doesn’t miss a beat.
    ” . . . the IDF has released a series of videos, captioned in English, apparently attempting to spin their own raid as an attack on the poor defenseless Israelis. ” (emptywheel)
    http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/05/31/apparently-missing-biblical-irony-nuclear-power-israel-complains-about-slingshot-attacks/

    Reply

  21. Carroll says:

    The good news is the Jews will eventually run out of money with which to buy politicans that will kill, genocide and exterminate all the non jews for them.
    The bad news is, will the Jews run out of blood and bribe money before or after they get the US to start a a war for them?
    Gingrich on cover of Adelson

    Reply

  22. nadine says:

    “Letsfreegaza: Beating the hell out of Israeli commandos’ and the person who posted it writes, “See how we attacked them as soon as they landed on deck! Look closely, we decked one of them with a crowbar!”
    Their own video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8zVD6C3C1k&feature=player_embedded
    The Israeli commanders blew it by thinking these “peace activists” were, like, peace activists. Five ships surrendered peacefully. But on the sixth ship they were met with knives, crowbars and live fire — while the Israeli soldiers had paintball guns. The Israeli soldiers went into an ambush, and had to call for backup.
    cee, Those ships had loudly declared their intention to sail into Israeli waters to break an Israel blockade, which is a declaration of war the other way around. Care to guess how Turkey would react if Israel began air-dropping supplies to Turkish Kurdistan?
    P.O.S., why don’t you just strap on a suicide belt and go blow yourself up somewhere in solidarity with your dear friends in Hamas, and spare us your crazed hate-filled rantings?

    Reply

  23. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Peace now’s Yaariv oppenheimer on Gaza Flotilla debacle: Israel’s moral decadence
    Israel’s moral decadence
    Yariv Oppenheimer | May 31, 2010
    (published in Maariv, Hebrew only)
    Even if the fleet to Gaza is irritating and outrageous, a sovereign state cannot treat every act of protest as a terror event that has to end in bloodshed
    Tonight Israel marked a new low point in the way it chose to contend with its domestic and external policy dissidents. A state that will not let its citizens protest, demonstrate and demand justice, a state that is busy composing loyalty tests for its citizens and passing laws to limit the freedom of expression, failed again in the real test and stopped a protest fleet of civilian ships at the cost of more than ten lives.
    The fleet that left Turkey a few days ago managed to anger even me. Hundreds of pro-Hamas activists challenged Israel blatantly and outrageously. Not a word of censure of the Hamas government, not a word about Gilad Shalit and not a word about the desire for peace. Nonetheless, a sovereign state cannot treat every show of protest, however outrageous and irritating it is, as a terror event that has to end in bloodshed. Instead of using the fleet to generate an internal Israeli discussion about the effectiveness of the policy of the siege of Gaza and its moral and political implications for Israel, all of the government spokesmen chose to focus on the handful of activists on the ships and grace them with the title of existential threats to Israel’s security. From here to unnecessary bloodshed the path was short.
    It is not the soldiers’ fault, nor the commanders’ nor the heads of the IDF’s. Israeli society as a whole is responsible for the grim results of the IDF takeover of the protest ships. The radicalization of Israeli society is yielding its fruit. The message to the soldiers and police is crystallizing. When Arabs are involved in an activity, the hand on the trigger is light. Determination boards the ship while sensitivity stays in the water.
    But have no fear, the domestic Israeli propaganda machine began to work and in just a few hours every Israeli will be recounting how Hamas helicopters took over a Jewish ship and shot illegal immigrants in all directions. With the use of our repression mechanisms and the encouragement of the IDF spokesman we will again dissociate from reality and the world and manufacture our own unique script in which we are the victims and the whole world is against us as usual. Will the outcome of tonight’s confrontation end with an official commission of inquiry? No chance.
    Israel justifies its brutal and violent image
    The price for the unfortunate results of the fleet will be paid primarily by the families of those who were killed at sea last night. Next in line to pay the price will be the residents of Israel who want peace and the end of the conflict with all their hearts, and who wish to stop the cycle of bloodshed and live in a saner country. We, the silent majority, watch with despair as Israel with its own actions justifies the brutal and violent image it acquired in the last years and gives our biggest enemies in Hamas and Iran a reason to rejoice.
    If the miserable naval clash had any winners, they are in Tehran, in the bunkers of Beirut and in the Hamas headquarters in Gaza. The Hamas government succeeded with the Israeli government’s active support to receive international recognition, to gain the support of the Arab world and to be seen as a hero standing up to Israel.
    The enemies of peace and the extremists on both sides can again find reasons to attack each other and deepen the hatred and hostility between Jews and Arabs in Israel and outside of it. Again the moderates on both sides are silenced and the voice of reason is drowned out by the voices of incitement and hatred. Without a loud voice of protest by a patriotic Israeli public calling on its leaders to change course, we will all find ourselves in a morally and politically decadent country, slowly sinking into the depths.
    http://palestinenote.com/cs/blogs/blogs/archive/2010/05/31/peace-now-s-yaariv-oppenheimer-on-gaza-flotilla-debacle-israel-s-moral-decadence.aspx
    I disagree with Oppenhiemer in one respect….
    Israel is NOT “slowly sinking into the depths”. It has already arrived there.
    It has become a detestable nation of racists, murderers, religous fanatics, and fascists. It cannot sink any lower. Any further despicable acts are not an act of descent, but rather an act of wallowing.

    Reply

  24. PissedOffAmerican says:

    A couple of these ships were of United States registry, making this an ACT OF WAR AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
    We now get to see the undeniable cowardice of this piece of shit Barack Obama, this warmongering witch Hillary Clinton, and these Congressional whores for Israel, Reid, Hoyer, Pelosi, Lieberman, Harmon, etc/ad nauseum.
    We get to glimpse Steve’s mettle, or lack thereof, as well.
    And NAF’s.

    Reply

  25. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Tony, Israel does not commit “atrocities” in Nadine’s sick little twisted cesspool of a mind, so there is no “flow” to “stem”.
    This was an act of “defense”, pure and simple, just like IDF troops gangbanging a fourteen year old child was an act of “consensual sex” according to Nadine.
    Nadine lives in a separate reality than those of us with consciences and moral barometers.

    Reply

  26. Cee says:

    Israel’s attack tests NATO Doctrine.
    by 8ackgr0und N015e
    Sun May 30, 2010 at 10:37:32 PM PDT
    Israel’s attack on the MV Blue Mamara, a Turkish vessel, means they just attacked a member of NATO. According to the NATO Charter, Article 5
    The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
    If you think there is wiggle room in that definition, you would be mistaken. Article 6 is explicit about where attacks will trigger responses. Vessels in the Mediterranean Sea are mentioned explicitly.
    8ackgr0und N015e’s diary :: ::
    Article 6 (1)
    For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
    on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
    on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
    (1) The definition of the territories to which Article 5 applies was revised by Article 2 of the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the accession of Greece and Turkey signed on 22 October 1951.
    (2) On January 16, 1963, the North Atlantic Council noted that insofar as the former Algerian Departments of France were concerned, the relevant clauses of this Treaty had become inapplicable as from July 3, 1962.
    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/5/31/871525/-Israels-attack-tests-NATO-Doctrine.

    Reply

  27. Tony C. says:

    At the risk of blending the two prime prime, weekend topics, I’m
    anxiously awaiting Nadine’s “top kill” effort to stem the flow of
    outrage over Israel’s latest atrocity.

    Reply

  28. Carroll says:

    There is one way to bring the whole Israel and zionist situation to a head very quickly without a war.
    Countries who have citizens killed and injured by Israel need to send their own assassins to the US and start executing the head zionist in the US, including those in congress. Yep, just do like Israel does and kill off all the problem people.
    No discussion, no phony law respect, just whack them.
    That would escalate things very quickly. Israel thinks they are giving the world “a lesson’ about how tough they are? Well, let us copy their “lessons”….deception, assassinations, murders, collective punishment, false flags.
    Israel has always threatened to ‘bring the world down with them’..the Sampson Option, with their nukes… if the jews were ever threatened again…so maybe they would just go ahead and blow themselves up as a final revenge gesture if their operatives started getting knocked off around the world.

    Reply

  29. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Comical.
    J-Street is calling for an ISRAELI investigation into this crime.
    So much for J-Street’s credibility, eh?

    Reply

  30. DonS says:

    [continued from above]
    Meanwhile the US administration seems even more in the pocket of Israel and the Israel Lobby that is pushing for war against Iran to validate Israel

    Reply

  31. DonS says:

    A few random takes:

    Reply

  32. DonS says:

    A few random takes:

    Reply

  33. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Ironic, isn’t it? This racist murderous little shithole leech of a country commits such a crime on our Veteran’s Day???? How many American soldiers have died over the last decade squandering our own security to advance that of the Israelis?
    Just like the piece of shit Hasbarists that lie with impunity here at TWN, Israel seems unconcerned with making public statements that are ridiculously incredible. Does this racist nazi Ayalon really expect the world community to buy this load of crap?
    Of course, buying it, and selling it, are two different things, aren’t they? Anyone wanna hazard a guess about whether or not Hillary and Barack assume their roles as Israeli sales clerks?
    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/Israeli+News/60212/Official-Statement-from-Deputy-FM-Ayalon-on-Gaza-Flotilla.html
    Official Statement from Deputy FM Ayalon on Gaza Flotilla
    (Monday, May 31st, 2010)
    Following is the official Foreign Ministry statement released by Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon.
    DEPUTY FM AYALON: Good morning, everyone. I want to report this morning that the armada of hate and violence in support of the Hamas terror organization was a premeditated and outrageous provocation. The organizers are well-known for their ties to Global Jihad, Al-Qaeda and Hamas. They have a history of arms smuggling and deadly terror. On board the ship we found weapons that were prepared in advance and used against our forces. The organizers

    Reply

  34. JohnH says:

    Obama’s reactions–gloss over the financial crisis, ignore BP’s outrageous behavior, coddle Israel no matter how despicable their behavior. Get the pattern?

    Reply

  35. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Of course, the usual tepid condemnation will trickle out of DC, followed closely by a litany of oaths swearing alliance and fealty.
    We are complicit in this, in as much as we have refused to strongly condemn such crimes in the past, refusing to recognize the validity of the Goldstone Report, and even standing mute as Israel guns down AMERICAN CITIZENS engaged in peaceful protest against ILLEGAL Israeli actions. Hillary Clinton, in stating that the Goldstone report was “seriously flawed”, is awash in Palestinian blood, as is this empty suit embarrassing coward, Barack Obama.
    This action not only advances Israel’s drive to establish itself as a pariah among the global community, but serves to further alienate the United States from the world community. Obama’s posturing in Cairo has been exposed as a sham, and rather than restore the credibility that Bush squandered so completely, Obama has further eroded it with his insincere posturing and cowardly refusal to back words with deeds.
    Any blood shed on the decks of these ships can be poured on Washington DC, just as surely as if it was American troops staging the raid.
    And make no mistake, the current crisis in the Gulf of Mexico will be used to bury this event on the back pages. This event will serve as just one more reminder about what a cowardly insincere posturing sack of shit we have in the White House, with no better masquerading as a Secretary of State.

    Reply

  36. Carroll says:

    Who is surprised at Israel’s actions?
    Been saying it forever…the more they get away with, the more they murder and steal.
    It’s their ‘right to jewish self determination’..isn’t that what they call it..’self determination’?… to kill and destroy who and whatever they choose in the universe so they can ‘be somebody’ and get even for all their ‘victimhood’.
    Sickos. Psychopaths.
    Perhaps the Turks will get them. Someone sure as hell needs to.

    Reply

  37. rc says:

    Also check out Gaza aid flotilla videos on The Real News Network
    If it works –
    http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=74&jumival=563

    Reply

  38. Cee says:

    Make no mistake, Tel Aviv is always carefully
    calculating how it can use Washington to further
    its own objectives with little regard for possible
    American interests. In 1967 the Israelis attacked
    the USS Liberty in international waters with the
    intention of sinking the ship and killing all the
    crew. During the first Gulf War Israel had to be
    defended by the United States. In the Cold War
    Israel spied aggressively on the US while cutting
    deals with both the Soviets and Chinese. The
    intelligence provided by Israel that Zuckerman
    praises is generally fabricated and completely
    self serving, intended to shape a narrative about
    the Middle East that makes the Israelis look good
    and virtually everyone else look bad

    Reply

  39. Cee says:

    The boat from flying a white flag when attacked by
    these war criminals.

    Reply

  40. DonS says:

    Right on schedule . . . “White House spokesman Bill Burton said in a statement that the United States “deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained” in the incident.” (AP via TPM)
    Will keep further commentary for the relevant thread Steve may initiate.

    Reply

  41. DonS says:

    The Israeli version of the killings aboard the aid ship cites provocation. What were they expecting, garlands and kumbaya? But reports from Al Jazeera indicate a minimum of provocation, certainly not warranting the apparent grossly disproportionate attack.
    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html
    But that is the Israeli style of late: disproportionate force and punish civilians with the aim of disuading any resistance. It’s not working. This appears another marker in Israel’s bleak record of rogue aggresssion.
    The official hasbara version will appear here shortly. Will it be the jackbooted don’t mess with Israel version. Or will it be the poor misunderstood Israelis who were trying to avoid conflict against the ruthless Hamas sympathizers. Probably both.
    And the US Dept of State version? We regret the loss of life but Hamas has to stop being unreasonable terrorists. Or will Barack give part of the Alphonse-Gaston routine and leave it to Hillary to kick ass?

    Reply

  42. rc says:

    So obviously the Turks are going to have to boat the aid in on their own gun boats — with Egypt bought off by US ‘aid’, Turkey is about the only regime left in the region with the balls to confront the terrorist State of Israel. The apartheid Zionist state has recently had spies expelled from UK and Australia over illegal passport use and murder in a public hotel. They probably sunk the South Korean navy boat with a ‘fake’ NK torpedo to try and set a decoy and gain leverage on China. Are there no limits to the depths of depravity that they will not sink to?
    I guess young professor ‘do little’ in the White House will make a powerful, direct and deafening silence on this matter of basic international law!
    Perhaps some of the resources patrolling off Somalia could be diverted to protect Gaza’s sea lane … oh, that’s right, it’s not in a strategic transport oil zone.

    Reply

  43. DonS says:

    OT:
    Israeli attacks aid ships and kills 10. Naturally the US ‘news’ sucks up the Israeli army version or, as it is more likely called, the Israeli false flag version.
    Netanyahu will ‘delay’ trip to US on Tuesday. Question really is, will Obama cancel meeting with Netanyahu.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/world/middleeast/01flotilla.html?hp

    Reply

  44. ... says:

    israel murdering folks on the high seas tonight… will be all over the news if the news is still capable of bringing the news – tomorrow… a nation driven by fear becomes uglier and uglier by the moment with zionist apologists having a harder and harder time justifying their actions…

    Reply

  45. Don Bacon says:

    It’s okay, that way Steve can spend more time with the yeomanry, people like us who run his threads all over creation.

    Reply

  46. Don Bacon says:

    Steve only deals with big fish; he runs with sharks.

    Reply

  47. Dan Kervick says:

    Hey Steve,
    I hope your hosts weren’t planning on serving any of these fish at the next soiree you’ve ben invited to:
    http://www.energyboom.com/policy/photos-thousands-tiny-dead-fish-washing-oil-contaminated-beach

    Reply

  48. Don Bacon says:

    I can’t get over the delicious irony of Obama/Clinton being upset that the press releases against Iran and the world community that Israel wrote for them came back, return mail, from the world community to bite them in the ass against. . . Israel!
    I gave a letter to the postman,
    he put it his sack.
    Bright and early next morning,
    he brought my letter back.
    She wrote upon it:
    Return to sender, address unknown.
    No such number, no such zone.
    We had a quarrel, a lover’s spat
    I write I’m sorry but my letter keeps coming back.
    hahahahahaha

    Reply

  49. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Excerpt…..
    With no immediate end in sight, there were growing concerns over the effects on public health of a prolonged exposure to the oil as well as to the more than 3,640,000 litres (800,000 gallons) of chemical dispersants sprayed on the slick.
    Environmentalists and fishing groups in Louisiana say prolonged exposure to the oil, in the form of tiny airborne particles as well as dispersants, could be wreaking devastating damage on public health.
    They also accuse BP of threatening to sack workers who try to turn up for clean-up duty wearing protective respirators, and the Obama administration of refusing to release results of air and water quality tests that would show the impact of crude oil and dispersants on the environment.
    Wilma Subra, a chemist who has served as a consultant to the Environmental Protection Agency, said there was growing anecdotal evidence that locals were falling ill after exposure to tiny airborne particles of crude. Air quality data released earlier by the EPA suggested the presence of chemicals that

    Reply

  50. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Excerpt…..
    The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration

    Reply

  51. PissedOffAmerican says:

    BP Refuses To Provide Workers With Respirators, Denies Oil Spill Health Risks
    After pumping heavy drilling mud and garbage into the open well for days, BP has finally admitted that their top kill attempt has failed. And drilling two relief wells to release the underground pressure now pushing the crude up through the broken pipeline could take months to complete.
    While oily tar balls and images of crude-soaked wildlife have been making headlines for weeks now, it’s important to remember that the humans involved with containment and cleanup are also at risk.
    BP workers are increasingly being sent to the hospital complaining of symptoms like vomiting, dizziness, difficult breathing and others. The obvious cause of such symptoms is the huge amount of crude oil bubbling up to the surface (some of which evaporates into the air) along with the massive injection of chemical dispersants into the waters (some of which also evaporates). BP claims it’s monitoring air quality, but so far has not gone public with any air quality test results (Natural News).
    Last week, Care2′s Ann Pietrangelo reported that Louisiana Congressman Charlie Melancon sent a letter to U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Kathleen Sebelius, requesting temporary health care clinics to serve volunteers and workers in Louisiana.
    Just days ago, Sebelius sent her own sternly worded letter to BP Chairman Lamar McKay, urging the company “to take responsibility for the health consequences of the disaster.”
    “We’re very concerned about the impact of the disaster on the public health of people in the gulf region,” Sebelius told the Washington Post.
    Although the EPA has tested more than 15,000 air samples from Venice, La., to Pensacola, Fla., and more than 500 water and soil samples, none of these tests detected dangerous substances at hazardous levels, according to Sebelius.
    “There’s no way you can be working in that toxic soup without getting exposures,” Hugh Kaufman, a senior policy analyst at the EPA’s office of solid waste and emergency response, told the Washington Post. Kaufman likened the situation to the World Trade Center cleanup after 9/11, which left workers with long-term respiratory problems despite repeated official claims that workers did not need respirators because the working conditions were safe. “It’s unbelievable what’s going on. It’s like deja vu all over again,” he said.
    Both the Huffington Post and DemocracyNow are reporting that BP has refused to provide clean-up workers with repirators because wearing them would create a bad “visual.” It’s also being reported that BP has threatened to fire workers that try to wear their own respirators.
    continues……
    http://www.care2.com/causes/health-policy/blog/oil-spill-workers-hospitalized/
    Gotta love it, doncha? If one of these workers is concerned for his/her personal health, and wears a respirator, BP will fire them.
    But gee we can’t blame BP, because Browner and Obama have assured us that “the government tells BP what to do”. So I guess its our own government that is refusing to protect the health of these workers, and has told BP to fire anyone that seeks to protect their own health?
    OK. So hey, lets send in the EPA! Remember them? They’re the lying pieces of shit that are responsible for the respiratory ailments of so many first responders that were assured the air was “safe” at ground zero post 9/11.
    Perhaps after a few hundred get sick, someone will make the suggestion that the air quality is tested, paying special mind to see if the ingredients of corexit 9500 are being found in the air??
    I mean, after all, 42 days into this seems like a good time to do a little testing, eh? I mean, you wouldn’t wanna just jump into it, wouldcha? Oh, hell, lets give it another month or so. Its not like people are keeling over dead or anything, so whats the big deal?
    Worry not, people, the government is on the job, and they have your best interests at heart. We know its so, because Obama tells us so. So take a deep breath, and leave your respirators at home. And don’t forget to sign your waivers.

    Reply

  52. Don Bacon says:

    Clinton, Feb 24, 2010: “Iran has left the international community little choice but to impose greater costs and pressure in the face of its provocative steps.”
    But now it appears that, unlike what the US has been claiming, the international community — 189 nations — is concerned with Israel’s nukes and not with Iran’s non-nukes!
    So Clinton’s “provocative steps” and “international community” have been shown up for what they are — baseless anti-Iran propaganda based on instructions from a country, Israel, which is the true object of concern in the international community.

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  53. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Obama ‘strongly’ opposes singling out of Israel at nuclear conference
    189 signatories of Non-Proliferation Treaty back a declaration proposing a 2012 conference to discuss banning nuclear weapons from the Middle East.
    By Natasha Mozgovaya and Reuters
    President Barack Obama said Friday that he ‘strongly’ opposed efforts to single out Israel on the issue of nuclear non-proliferation and would oppose actions that jeopardize Israel’s national security.
    “We strongly oppose efforts to single out Israel, and will oppose actions that jeopardize Israel

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  54. DonS says:

    “He’s (Obama) simply too comfy with the institutions that need aggressive confrontation”
    . . . Or maybe just wannabee comfy. It results in the same thing.

    Reply

  55. DonS says:

    “He’s (Obama) simply too comfy with the institutions that need aggressive confrontation”
    Exactly. State, DOD, BP, health care,financial reform. You name it:
    http://firedoglake.com/2010/05/30/why-did-obama-trust-big-oil/

    Reply

  56. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Dutch Company, Koseq, Comes to BP

    Reply

  57. Dan Kervick says:

    Hey Steve,
    You should check out Dilip Hiro’s latest book, which I started reading last night. And for a different, but equally thought-provoking perspective, see Clyde Prestowitz’s latest.
    As I suggested earlier, the US is in danger of isolating itself because of its obstreperous stances on the Turkey-Brazil diplomatic intervention, and now its inconsistent posture of the Nuclear-free Middle East initiatives.
    And here’s an interesting article by Ali Aslan on Turkey.
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/28/how_Turkey_tamed_its_army
    Now, back to the oil volcano disaster! If things keep going the way they are in this unfolding catastrophe, you may get one of your secret wishes: Obama is going to have to resign and let Biden take over.

    Reply

  58. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Its interesting seeing Steve making such a big deal out of Kupchan’s “friend’s out of enemies” schtick, while remaining completely mute about SOS Hillary’s “fuck you very much” brand of bizarro “diplomacy”.

    Reply

  59. Don Bacon says:

    I guess that if BP operatives had blown up Times Square then Obama would have stood back and relied upon BP to issue the press releases and try to contain the dust from blowing around. But then he did take all those campaign contributions from BP employees (Clinton took more).

    Reply

  60. DonS says:

    So how come some commenters at TWN can recognize that there are technical approaches to deal with oil spill issues that are not being ‘accepted’ by whoever is in control, and that there is legal authority for federal intervention that is not being acknowledged or, certainly, used? It does not take a genius to deduce, since all sources cited by the above commenters are public, that political decisions are at play as well a legal considerations to the extent that questions of monetary liability are flying fast and heavy behind the scenes.
    One hopes, at least, that Mr. Obama is not spending a lot of time looking into his personal political crystal ball. Ame I naive?
    As to agreement between or among culturally similar people,the great Kupchan/Wigwag debate, I pretty much side with Don Bacon’s ‘duh’. Although, if we analogize to ‘science’ off one sort or another, under certain conditions likes attract; under others they repel. So take your pick; academics can usually come up with some thesis or other to justify writing about it, or vice versa. To me, the psychological tensions that arise from real and perceived differences in power and control have as much or more to do with the underlying theme. But it’s all so much wasted breath if there is not a real will to try accommodation. In the real world, discontinuing provocation (e.g., stirring hornet’s nests of resentment by misplace aggression, killing people) is a fairly obvious first step.

    Reply

  61. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Well, 42 days and counting. Lets see how this “marraige” works out when BP gets into the courts in an effort to fuck the American people out of compensation. (As if you can “compensate” us for the environmental damage that is occurring).
    I see BP is already wrangling for a “judge” in Texas that is highly sympathetic to big oil. No doubt they’ll succeed, because this spineless coward Obama and his sack of shit AG aren’t exactly known for conviction or respect for the people’s expectation of accountability, are they?
    Seems to me it doesn’t matter what this spineless maggot does at this point, he’s already fumbled the ball beyond recovery. It can only get worse for him from this point on. As the oil spews into the gulf, the American people will just get angrier and angrier. And as the media starts revealing the avenues towards solutions that were IGNORED by this bastard, his ineptitude and subservience to BP will only become more evident. Yep, forty two days and counting, and he has allowed BP to run roughshod over the truth, and the utilization of many tried and true techniques of oil recovery and clean-up. AS WELL AS not even bothering to respond to the multitude of international offers of assistance. Stick a fork in this worm, he’s done.

    Reply

  62. Don Bacon says:

    Seventeen nations have offered assistance

    Reply

  63. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Dutch Response Team Presents Solution for US Oil Disaster
    by Johan Huizinga
    Global Research, May 24, 2010
    Radio Netherlands Worldwide – 2010-05-04
    Two Dutch companies are on stand-by to help the Americans tackle an oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico. The two companies use huge booms to sweep and suck the oil from the surface of the sea. The US authorities, however, have difficulties with the method they use.
    What do the Dutch have that the Americans don

    Reply

  64. Don Bacon says:

    Well, duh, WigWag, similar people find it easier to get along then do different people. Does that non-revelation deserve six inches of screen space?

    Reply

  65. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Iran offers to help with U.S. oil spill
    Published: May 4, 2010 at 1:16 PM
    TEHRAN, May 4 (UPI) — Iranian officials offered their oil workers to help prevent an ecological disaster from an oil spill off the southern coast of the United States.
    The Deepwater Horizon rig caught fire and sank last month about 50 miles off the coast of Louisiana. Though weather patterns are keeping most of the slick offshore, crude oil is spilling into the Gulf of Mexico at a rate of about 5,000 barrels per day.
    Heidar Bahmani, the managing director of the National Iranian Drill Co., said his company was ready to help contain the spill, Iran’s state-funded broadcaster Press TV reports
    “Our oil industry experts in the field of drilling can contain the rig leakage in the Gulf of Mexico and prevent an ecological disaster in that part of the world,” he said.
    The managing director added the NIDC was ready to overlook the U.S. push for new sanctions at the U.N. Security Council as there is an urgent need for action in the southern coastal regions.
    Environmental activists said the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico could rival the environmental damage from the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster this week.
    BP, the operator of Deepwater Horizon, said a containment canopy could be in position at the site of the Deepwater Horizon “in a little more than a week.”

    Reply

  66. PissedOffAmerican says:

    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Politics/bp-oil-spill-engineers-begin-top-kill-effort/story?id=10751007
    Excerpt….
    Countries Offer Aid
    While the governor asks for more supplies, a number of countries said today that the U.S. government and BP had yet to take them up on offers of assistance, including booms and skimmers.
    The State Department said in a briefing today that 17 countries had offered assistance, including Canada, Mexico, South Korea, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Russia, Spain, Sweden, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and Vietnam.
    BP added another two countries to that list, Brazil and Saudi Arabia.
    While BP has accepted some supplies, including booms and skimmers from Norway, most other countries said they were waiting for a response from the U.S. government.
    “We have the equipment,” said Ferran Tarradellas, a spokesman for the European Union agency coordinating Europe’s response, “but at this point in time, we have not received any requests.”

    Reply

  67. PissedOffAmerican says:

    Making friends out of enemies is a good place to put this…..
    UAE Oil Spill Experts

    Reply

  68. WigWag says:

    I broke down and bought the book on my Kindle even though it is way too expensive for an e-book. So Steve can at least feel good that he sold one of Charles’ books and put $17.00 in Kupchan’s pocket (or $17 in his publishers pocket; it’s probably more like $5 or $6 in Kupchan’s pocket).
    About 2 months before his lecture at the New America Foundation, Kupchan gave a very interesting interview at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
    Some of his remarks were quite enlightening. For example. Kupchan said,
    “The second variable that kept coming back again and again in the case studies was this elusive variable of what I call social order. I generally found that states that were fundamentally different in the way they organized themselves and their political economy weren’t able to get past the early stages.”
    He goes on to say,
    “I did not find that countries of different cultures are destined to clash, but I did find that countries of similar cultures find it easier to get to yes than countries of different cultures. By culture, I mean ethnicity, race, and religion.
    For example, at the same time that Great Britain attempted to fashion friendship with us, they did the same thing with Japan. They formed an alliance in 1902. It didn’t work. One of the reasons it didn’t work was because the British never felt comfortable with the Japanese in the same way they felt with their Anglo-Saxon brethren on this side of the Atlantic.”
    All of this makes me wonder how much relevance Kupchan’s rules have for modern conflicts.
    Having spent the past 300 years sorting itself by religion, race, ethnicity and language most of the conflicts in the world today are no longer between kinsmen but between people of different cultures. In light of this, how many successful diplomatic engagements in search of peace are we likely to see? Not many if Kupchan’s thesis is correct.
    Think about the troble spots in the world today; how similar are the cultures in the Afghan or Pakistani rural areas and triba regions compared to the urban centers of those nations?
    How similar are the cultures of the Russians and Chechans, Israelis and Palestinians, the Serbs and Kosovars, the Indians and the Pakistanis, or even the British and the Argentines (there’s another big argument coming over the Falklands)?
    I can think of a few disputes where the parties to the conflict share alot of cultural characteristics; the fight between the the Georgians and the South Ossetians might be one
    example; the disagreements between Northern Irish Catholics and Protestants might be another.
    But if Kupchan is correct and culture really does matter for peace-making, I would have to say that the prospects for very many peace agreeements in today’s world are pretty slim.

    Reply

  69. Don Bacon says:

    Calling Obama courageous for peace when he is escalating warfare is disingenuous. His Secretary of state has made a distressing habit of threatening and chastising other governments. The State Department motto “Diplomacy In Action” has been a joke.
    “Talking doesn’t hurt” says Kupchan, but Obama hasn’t done it. Obama’s “New Strategy for Afghanistan” unveiled on March 27, 2009 included a promise to talk.
    “. . .together with the United Nations, we will forge a new Contact Group for Afghanistan and Pakistan that brings together all who should have a stake in the security of the region — our NATO allies and other partners, but also the Central Asian states, the Gulf nations and Iran; Russia, India and China.”
    There was no new Contact Group for Afghanistan. No talk. On Iran Obama reiterated some Bush threats and recently used attack-dog Clinton again to (apparently) kill a Turkey/Brazil solution to that impasse. Clinton recently rudely rebuffed a North Korea offer to end the Korean War — what’s up with that? Talking apparently DOES hurt.
    So the optimism on Obama is misplaced. The underlying problem with Kupchan’s book is that there is no profit in peace, which is why we have endless war.

    Reply

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