Haniyeh Makes Idiotic Statement on Par with Falwell and Robertson

-

This is abhorrent — and Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh, if he wants to be taken seriously in the modern world, needs to get modern.
This kind of statement puts him right up there with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blaming 9/11 on gays, liberals, and feminists.
– Steve Clemons

Comments

21 comments on “Haniyeh Makes Idiotic Statement on Par with Falwell and Robertson

  1. questions says:

    Brad DeLong’s commenters are an impressive bunch, and this post along with the comments is really quite interesting.
    http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/12/delong-smackdown-watch-paul-rosenberg-sings-talking-heads-once-in-a-lifetime-department.html#comments
    I think it’s kind of to the point here as well,since the issue is this sense that economists have that they know exactly what to do, but then the world doesn’t seem to go along with the program.
    What theory of congressional policy making– investment theory of party competition, or median voter– best explains things?

    Reply

  2. BLACKBERRY 9780 says:

    Really a educative and informative post, the post is good in all regards,I am glad to read this post.
    http://www.cellhub.com/t-mobile-cell-phones/blackberry-9780-bold-black.html
    BLACKBERRY 9780

    Reply

  3. questions says:

    From Brad DeLong, more on structure and cycle, in a dialogue between Thrasymachus and Monetaristotoles:
    http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/11/a-platonic-dialogue-on-the-failure-of-economics-education.html
    (Not sure why he uses Thrasymachus — the temperament is all wrong, it seems to me.)
    One of the commenters makes points similar to mine regarding outsourcing and structures. One reply seems to be that if we lose one segment or other of the economy to outsourcing, we simply find some new segment of the economy to replace it, hence nothing would seem structural save NAIRU issues — which are, I think, usually manipulated by screwing around with interest rates.
    I’m still not convinced that segments of the economy can be moved around, that people are sufficiently mobile that they can just be plugged in to new domains. This might be where the technocrats need to talk to the behavioralists as it could be that the technocratic worldview/vocabulary finds its failure point.
    My offhand guess is that we’re sentimental, rigid, romanticizing critters who don’t sufficiently bend with the times or the technorational preference for a completely mobile labor force.
    Then recall Krugman’s lament, which seems to be that we’re not mobile enough in our teaching of economics to the next generation, or in our policy making. The technoids aren’t immune to political pressures, so they can’t merely reallocate human capital, and capital itself, to stabilize the flow of money.
    (Think about the profound anti-democratic, pretty much tyrannical underpinnings of this fantasy — if only a few properly trained economists could take charge of the allocation of resources at certain crisis points, all would be well. It does, indeed need to be thought through just how much of our semi-democracy needs to be out of the hands of the people in order to preserve our semi-democracy!)
    Capital accumulates infinitely beyond the amount of capital that there is. There’s not much rational in the head of a billionaire who feels impoverished.
    There’s an entire political party whose main tenet is that capital should accumulate just so. That’s not very technocratic or rational, either.
    Money is all enmeshed in survival instincts, the loss of love and deity, proof of love and deity — good lord, what’s a technocrat to do in the face of such irrationality!
    *************
    Not only do the progs HATE the Obama tax compromise of 2010 for its steps towards completely repealing Social Security and for its giveaways to really really rich people, but now the right HATES the compromise for its steps towards confiscating estates.

    Reply

  4. replice vertu says:

    So the inheritance deal is maybe ok. And the SoSec tax cut seems good. And if the cost of middle class tax cuts is letting the gazillionaires continue to be gazillionaires (which they’d do anyway by sheltering their money), then maybe this is fine.
    And let’s face it, the ability to shelter income likely undoes far more of the taxing power of the government than anyone wants to talk about.

    Reply

  5. replice vertu phone says:

    The author thinks there are better economic ways to do things, but they are not necessarily better political ways to do things in my read at any rate.
    And, hard to believe, the mortgage thing gets a little crazier:

    Reply

  6. replice cell phone says:

    Why might banks hold capital rather than lend? Well, maybe because they are carrying so much in bad assets that it’s the most logical thing to do. And industry might sit on capital because they fear systemic break downs. Even if you thought you could make some money in the future by investing now, you’d have to have these system-wide problems figured in.

    Reply

  7. questions says:

    The payroll tax holiday is not unstimulative:
    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/12/guest-post-how-effective-would-a-payroll-tax-holiday-be-in-spurring-employment-and-stimulating-the-economy.html
    The author thinks there are better economic ways to do things, but they are not necessarily better political ways to do things in my read at any rate.
    And, hard to believe, the mortgage thing gets a little crazier:
    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/12/some-lenders-sell-foreclosed-homes-without-obtaining-title.html
    The URL says it all….. Yikes.
    Until we find a way to xflate out of the housing mess, xflate out of the banking mess, we’re going to be a mess.
    Why might banks hold capital rather than lend? Well, maybe because they are carrying so much in bad assets that it’s the most logical thing to do. And industry might sit on capital because they fear systemic break downs. Even if you thought you could make some money in the future by investing now, you’d have to have these system-wide problems figured in.

    Reply

  8. questions says:

    Rortybomb has several good posts up, including one disagreeing with Klein to some extent, one seeing Orszag’s NYT op-eds as worrisome guides to what the admin might actually be thinking regarding the economy, and one on extending unemployment insurance as both a concern (paying people not to work) and as a non-concern (more people stay in work when those out of work don’t have to eliminate consumption).

    Reply

  9. questions says:

    Fascinating poli sci look at partisan ID in the US — data seem to show that more of it has to do with how the economy does in election years, as opposed to how the economy does overall under one party or the other.
    Discussion of Larry Bartels’ Unequal Democracy….
    Not race, not hot button issues, it’s the economy, stupid. Only, it’s the economy in election years.
    http://www.themonkeycage.org/2010/12/why_dont_low-income_whites_lov.html#more
    If this is correct, and if the new tax bill does its thing, then this is quite good for the dems.
    Ezra Klein and Jonathan Bernstein seem to think the new compromise will have a significant stimulus effect. Let’s face it, dropping SoSec taxes for a year helps 100% of us from the first dollar, and the inheritance tax cut will transfer more money to heirs who will use the money to pay off their own mortgages or other debt. A lot of Boomer parent money is coming down the pike, and a lot of Boomers are fucked royally by the economic bust. The gov could take this and balance its budget and thus remove the money from the economy, or the deficits and debts could remain high and people can get their affairs in order. Stimulus or debt…..
    So the inheritance deal is maybe ok. And the SoSec tax cut seems good. And if the cost of middle class tax cuts is letting the gazillionaires continue to be gazillionaires (which they’d do anyway by sheltering their money), then maybe this is fine.
    And let’s face it, the ability to shelter income likely undoes far more of the taxing power of the government than anyone wants to talk about.
    Read Bernstein, Klein, and The Monkey Cage on the deal. They all have really interesting things to say about the strategy, the stimulus effect, and the notion that the dems care most about tax cuts down low, the Repubs care about them up high, and neither has enough votes w/o the other. Deal time!
    Here’s the Bernstein link, and he links to Klein:
    http://plainblogaboutpolitics.blogspot.com/2010/12/obama-tax-cuts-and-bargaining.html

    Reply

  10. Warren Metzler says:

    rc, I don’t want to highjack Steve’s blog, which I perceive is about opinions (reasonable) regarding inter country relationships. But since you asked, here goes.
    God created and runs the universe, intending that human spirits (every human has spirit) eventually become so mature God can have repeated mature spiritual companionship, which was not available from her angels or archangels, because none of them have individuality, which we all have.
    We all rebelled, incarnated a rebellious nature into our spirits, so repeatedly deviate from God’s path for us. Each negative experience a person has, including collective negative experiences (natural and man made disasters, wars, dictators, etc.) is discipline from God, designed to encourage a return to God’s will. Every human spirit experiences multiple lives, so dying young, or prematurely during one life is not a problem. Every time a person follows God’s will, that person experience one of more quality sensations (each one moment of pleasure). Maturing occurs when a person becomes more skilled at daily life (becomes more able to produce excellent results, and thoroughly enjoy the process, or a particular daily activity).

    Reply

  11. rc says:

    Ahhh, “runs the world”…. so the ‘supreme being’ is responsible for this mess … including millions of Jews, Roma and other outcasts murdered in NAZI Germany, not to mention the millions in China, USSR, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and now Iraq and Afghanistan? You could probably add the millions that died from the European invasion of the Americas through disease alone. Pray tell Warren — does it run itself as well? Or is that too paradoxical for you? Have you considered the possibility that an emergent outcome of the ‘whole thing’ may exist but not run anything?

    Reply

  12. Warren Metzler says:

    I am just curious Steve. Do you respectfully disagree with my view that a Supreme Being exists and runs the world, or that the first amendment applies to all humans?

    Reply

  13. samuelburke says:

    Steve, did you see this article by David Frum?
    the state is under attack by obese people.
    Why obesity is a national security threat
    By David Frum, CNN Contributor
    December 6, 2010 11:50 a.m. EST
    David Frum: Many more soldiers discharged due to obesity than
    to “don’t ask, don’t tell”
    Frum says about one quarter of young adults are too overweight
    to enlist in U.S. military
    Conservatives have criticized Michelle Obama’s focus on
    combating child obesity
    Frum says first lady is right to target obesity, which is linked to
    disease and high health costs
    Editor’s note: David Frum writes a weekly column for CNN.com.
    A special assistant to President George W. Bush from 2001 to
    2002, he is the author of six books, including “Comeback:
    Conservatism That Can Win Again,” and is the editor of
    FrumForum.
    Washington (CNN) — “An army travels on its stomach,” said
    Napoleon Bonaparte.

    Reply

  14. Don Bacon says:

    “those fires are divine strikes for what they [Israel] did”
    And what did Israel do? Merely talk about what god might have done? No. They killed, and killed some more.
    “My message to the West

    Reply

  15. Steve Clemons says:

    Mishmaroof — I’m not a thought policeman on this issue. If the Jewish equivalent said the same as Haniyeh on par with Falwell and Robertson, then I also view their commentary to be despicable in a time of serious tragedy.
    Get back to discussing real issues please…This one doesn’t interest me, and I don’t have time to chase the rabbit on what religious zealot wants to promulgate their views in the middle of this terrible tragedy.
    I wrote the same about Falwell and Robertson at the times.
    Warren, appreciate your comments, but respectfully disagree…all best, steve

    Reply

  16. Cee says:

    I have been away and became sad to read about these
    fires. Even more now that I read Haniyeh’s
    statement. Did he think his assassination attempt
    was a message from God too? I’m in Barbados and it
    took me a day to connect to your site Steve.

    Reply

  17. Warren Metzler says:

    Building on rich, I want to challenge Steve on this. I suggest your position is directly in opposition to our first amendment, particularly the free speech part.
    If a Supreme Being exists, God; and before the atheists get hot under the collar and accuse me of being a religious pseudo scientist / fanatic, please note I said “if”, it rationally follows she would be in control of how the world functions, and could be, with the recent forest fires, be providing Israel with some disciplinary communication: and here’s a hypothesis, “you have, in several areas, been behaving quite poorly for some time, and I want to wake you up to your irresponsibility”. After all, if God exists she is a spirit, she communicates in spiritually ways (read non-consciously detectable).
    Which I propose is a view that has reason. Because in this crisis Israel is experiencing aid from a lot of countries who they have repeatedly accused of being anti-Semitic. Thereby giving Israelis an opportunity to recognize that a lot of suggestions they have considered anti-Semitic may actually be unbiased rational assessments of one or more of Israel’s actions. Because when Israel has a real problem it can’t handle by itself, the rest of the world responds in a kindly manner. And no truly anti-Semitic country would act in that manner.
    These fires further can communicate to Israelis that they are not omnipotent, and can’t do everything for themselves; and need to remember they are a member of the world community, and have a responsibility to act as a mature member of this club. Which some, including me, feel is a good idea for Israel to consider.
    So Steve saying Haniyeh is going too far, when what he is expressing is rational given his religious beliefs, is really a form of telling him that the first amendment rights all Americans possess, aren’t available to him. And I say, if they are genuine rights, they apply to every human, whether or not any one human lives in a country that doesn’t ensure those rights.

    Reply

  18. Mishmaaroof says:

    Haniyeh may be off the wall, but he is not alone:
    Curiously, you and the mainstream media widely trumpeted the blatherings of a Muslim fundamentalist, but almost totally ignored almost identical comments by a Jewish equivalent.

    Reply

  19. rich says:

    POA,
    Haniyeh said* the same thing that several Orthodox rabbis said during the Gazan invasion: that it was the hand of God striking down their respective enemies, and good work to boot.
    Only Haniyeh was referring to lightning strikes and trees in a forest; the rabbis were referring to Israeli soldiers attacking Gazan women and children, and relishing it.
    One of the two has been admonished to adopt civilized language appropriate in our modern world. Or, at least a tone seemly in the court of public opinion.
    * link works now

    Reply

  20. PissedOffAmerican says:

    WHEW!!! Clicked on Steve’s “This” link and got a “sign on” screen. Scared the shit outta me, figured “Uh oh, I’m the fourth banned pigeon.” Took me a second or two to get over my guilt driven paranoia.
    So, uh, not being able to get to the linked article, I’m assuming Haniyeh didn’t have the good sense to simply call it Karma, and got a bit wacko smacko religious weird in a very specific manner.
    I wonder, how many second, third, and fourth generation Olive groves have been torched, bulldozed, and razed by the Israelis??? Think the Israelis helped put the fires out? Planted new trees?? Apologized or held anyone accountable?
    I don’t know what Haniyeh said, and odds are I’d find it just more middle eastern wackjobbery religious nuttism. But I DO understand why he has the hatred that feeds the wackjobbery, and were I in Palestinian shoes, I’m not so sure I wouldn’t feel the same way.

    Reply

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *